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Bereta_Eder
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Actually the whole song goes something like this "Osama tell me what can I do? I don't know how to fly a plane. To take it and crush it on those (insert name of despised football team) mother****er's gates etc etc"
Inspiring. Must be from the same football fans (see hooligans) who last year affectionatly burned the US flag during the one minute of silence for the victims of the 9/11 leaving the guest scotish team gasping in disbelief.
Boy did our foreign minister had a hard time "explaning it"
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Six Thousand Year Old Man
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Ad Rock
Aug 2000
time: 00:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Ming
Did I say that it was justification?
I was implying that people who live in glasses houses shouldn't throw stones  |
I wholeheartedly agree that all nations (and all individuals, for that matter) act in their own self interest exclusively.
However, if that's the case, why is it that when defending US unilateral actions, Bush et al insist that they're doing it out of a desire for global safety, peace, protection of others, etc, etc. I mean, call a spade a spade, fercryinoutloud.
Moreover... don't expect the rest of us to support actions that are in the US interest, unless those are in our interests as well.
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Ming
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quote:
Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man However, if that's the case, why is it that when defending US unilateral actions, Bush et al insist that they're doing it out of a desire for global safety, peace, protection of others, etc, etc. I mean, call a spade a spade, fercryinoutloud.
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*and DV's quote would have worked just as well too*
What do you guys expect from a politician... If he stood up their and told the truth, you would all call him an idiot again... You can't have it both ways 
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Bereta_Eder
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11 September? A Zionist Plot
By Helena Smith
The New Statesman
November 26, 2001
"What was wrong with those attacks," says the upright Greek businessman speaking of 11 September, "was that they didn't happen at night. If they had happened then, the towers and perhaps even the Pentagon would have been empty."
The businessman, let's call him Giorgos, has one of those pleasant, open faces. He wears a European Commission flag pinned to his lapel, and is explaining, quite calmly, how the average Athenian sees the day that changed the world.
"In Greece," he murmurs in a matter-of-fact way, "we regard this as a textbook case of David versus Goliath. America is overly arrogant and it needed to be brought down to earth. The attacks were the consequence of all its sins - Kosovo, Korea, Vietnam and Cyprus, a classic case of American double standards; 11 September was a taste of its own medicine."
In the birthplace of democracy - Nato's strategic arm in the south-eastern Mediterranean and Euroland's most recent addition (WRONG MS JOURNALIST, even my dog if i had one would notmake this mistake)- Giorgos's views are not unusual. If anything, they are rather tame.
From the moment the twin towers came tumbling down, the Greeks took a decidedly different approach to the tragedy and the ensuing attack on Afghanistan - one that, once again, highlights the divide that separates this country from the rest of the west. While London and Washington were still fretting about forging a common global front against terror, anti-war rallies across Greece offered evidence that it may have been prudent to examine the EU's inner sanctum first.
Repeatedly, Hellenes topped international league tables in their lack of sympathy for post-attack America. Fewer Greeks supported the US-led war than did Palestinians. (EVIDENCE MS JOURNALIST? not that it matters) Midway through the campaign, polls showed that eight in ten were vehemently opposed to the air strikes, fearing the quest for justice would turn into one of revenge. The vast majority agreed with Iran, and other Middle Eastern states, that they were being prosecuted solely to "promote the west's powerful interests". (LIKE, DOH!)
The news of Kabul's fall was greeted with immediate scepticism: Uncle Sam, opined one Greek commander formerly attached to Nato, was clearly hoping American troops would establish a foothold in the country.
Over dinner that night, a Greek doctor asked me if I really believed Osama Bin Laden was truly behind the worst terrorist attack in history. After all, he noted, a nationwide poll in Greece had revealed two riveting facts: that only 29.6 per cent of his compatriots thought the Saudi-born fugitive had masterminded the attacks, and that 35.9 per cent were convinced the carnage was the work of the CIA - if it wasn't a Zionist plot engineered by Mossad (7.7 per cent). (boooo)
"Why does Blair, that well-known gay, ( ahem) think he knows best?" the doctor inquired gruffly. "Doesn't he realise that there are some places in Europe where there has been hardly any support for this so-called war?"
In Greece, support has not only been minimal; anti-Americanism has been growing by the day.
My neighbourhood is now daubed with swastika-adorned slogans that scream: "**** the USA!" (we are such a loving people and we show it) For the first time in years, commemorations marking the 17 November student uprising - the event that triggered the collapse of seven miserable years of US-backed military rule in 1974 - were unexpectedly well attended.
As I write this, the slogans of roughly 7,000 angry men and women waft through my windows. "Down with Bush!" they chant. "Down with Ameri-cans, the murderers of children! No to Nato's imperialist war!" (knowing how to press a point )
Admittedly, those who bother to attend such rallies are, by their own definition, marginalised supporters of the KKE (the Communist Party of Greece), which led similar opposition to the alliance's bombardment of Serbia in 1999. But unlike any other EU country, what the protesters mirror is the mainstream view. The Greeks are as instinctively anti-western as they are naturally conspiratorial. As a result, anti-Americanism has not only dominated the nation's political discourse, but it has been cultivated by vote-seekers for decades; 11 September has shown that this is still true.
While the socialist government (social democrat, please) in Athens has been at pains to assert its unstinting support for Washington - providing military facilities and even despatching the foreign minister, George Papandreou, to central Asia at Colin Powell's behest - the Greek public, mindful of the old rhetoric, has voiced radically different views.
One poll showed that 30 per cent of the population felt justice had been served. Another poll showed that about 25 per cent of respondents felt "satisfied", even "pleased", by the assault. Echoing that sentiment, one prominent conservative commentator compared the culprits to the heroes of Greece's 1821 war of independence. (err, that's going a bit too far Ms
Journalist)
The most embarrassing display of anti-Americanism came two days after the attacks, when Greek football fans attending an Athens soccer match against Scotland jeered through the minute's silence in memory of the terror victims. The doughty Scots looked on aghast as they destroyed an Israeli flag and then attempted to burn the Stars and Stripes in the stands. "I could not believe such anti-American feeling in a European country," said Alex McLeish, the coach of the Scottish team. (there you go Dinodoc)
Disgusted Greek Americans, many of whom are tireless lobbyists, say they will now be boycotting the 2004 Athens Olympics. "We condemn and reject the shameless and baseless insults and blatant slander of fellow Greeks in the motherland," the Federation of Greek Associations of Greater New York snapped in a blistering statement. (there is no greek lobby in the US  )
"I just don't get it," says John Sitilides, who heads the Washington-based Western Policy Center. "Greece is surrounded on three sides by Muslim populations which have in them pockets of extremism. It is the western country most in danger of a terrorist threat when it holds the Olympics. Any international effort that weakens terrorism is actually to Greece's benefit, but that has not sunk in." (in time, in time... )
Analysts point to the Greeks' delicate geopolitical position as citizens of a Christian buffer state, at the crossroads of east and west. Half a century may have elapsed since Greece's bloody civil war of 1946-49, but the left has still not forgiven America for its support of the right and subsequent mischief-making to keep the communists out.
Throughout the 1950s, and with US blessing, emboldened right-wing governments became increasingly repressive, so much so that tens of thousands of leftists were either imprisoned in concentration camps or exiled on isolated Aegean islands.
Memories of the ruthless 1967-74 dictatorship and ensuing Turkish invasion of Cyprus are also vivid - even if Bill Clinton eventually apologised for Washington's "failure to support democracy".
Leftist anger is understandable. What is less so is the anti- Americanism now being espoused by the political right. Earlier this month, the youth wing of the main opposition New Democracy party splashed the burning twin towers across posters advertising a "once in a lifetime" event. (right wingers  no imagination - never saw that BTW)
Increasingly, right-wingers have come to equate nationalism with anti-Americanism. According to polls, over 50 per cent of Greek conservatives now "hate" Uncle Sam. American policies in the Balkans are partly to blame. Goaded by the dogmatic Archbishop of Athens, Christodoulos, Greeks of all persuasions see the superpower as the root cause of the plight of their Serbian co-religionists, and the ill repute of Eastern Orthodoxy in general. (satill angels comapred to catholic lovers )
"The assault on America was the work of God's wrath," boomed the telegenic Christodoulos shortly after the attack. (he never said that)
Across the board, Hellenes live in fear of Washington now exerting "unbearable" pressure on them to root out their own terrorists, not least the 17 November group. To boot, many see the Orthodox Church as the embodiment of Greece's defensive national identity - the only bulwark left against the threat of multiculturalism, now symbolised by the US-style yuppies who work for multinationals, drive Jeeps and wield their mobiles like firearms. (we also have mobile phones Ms journalist)
If 11 September has proved anything, it is that most Greeks remain mentally disengaged from the west. They see the world from the perspective of the Middle East. So why not place them in the Middle East as well? (we also have similar foods)
"Perhaps the time has come to stop seeing Greece as a western country," writes Takis Michas in his forthcoming book The Unholy Alliance: Greece and Milosevic's Serbia during the 1990s. After all, he notes, Greece offers the best evidence yet that economic growth and modernisation do not necessarily lead to westernisation. Or to loving Uncle Sam.
(but it leaves economic growth and modernization )
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Bereta_Eder
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BTW I like how you edit your posts before the time has elapsed when it is written in the bottom of the post... You have evolved the process into an art from.
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Cybergod
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Wünderland
Feb 2001
time: 05:22
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I'd just like to say that the number of people that died in NY on 9/11 is exactly the same number of Iraqi children that die each month due to American "humanitarian" bombing, use of depleted uranium which has exactly the same effect of a nuclear bomb in slow-motion, implementing sanctions which didn't stop the government-close elite getting luxuries but starved the people of Iraq. 167 Iraqi children die each day. Think about the rest of the population.
And now Bush talks about invading Iraq to "stop Saddam Hussein" who they (his father etc) installed in power? (Hint: OIL OIL OIL) Please... Just hope they do not repeat the stuff that happened with Indonesia, where the big american, british, canadian and french corporates virtually carved up the country's economy, sector by sector...
And DinoDoc - Greece is the best country in the world, so don't insult it ! (Even though all I know of Greek is "kali mera, kali spera, kali nikta, yassou, yammas and efteristo" )
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Dr Strangelove
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How many of you were actually alive at the time of the Dominican Republic crisis? American troops were sent in only once American tourists were attacked. The rebels surrounded the US embassy and a bunch of hotels. Several Americans living in the DR were executed just for being American. The rebel leaders made it very clear that they weren't going to do anything about the disorder, so the US government did.
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Keygen
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Athens, Hellas
Jan 2000
time: 07:22
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
regarding your backward country
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Easy boy...
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VetLegion
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Unholly Alliance, read somwhere about that book
something about "greek and serbian flags tied together in the city of srebrenica" and "greek volunteers in serbian troops"
were you a volunteer paiktis?
from a review on amazon.com:
"....I lived through some of these times in Athens, and even though I was disturbed by the constant pro-Serb bias in the newspapers, I did not suspect the depths to which Greece might stoop to aid the butchers, rapists, mass-murderers, and torturers in Bosnia and Kosovo. To invoke the name of Christ in this effort mocks the essence of Christianity -- indeed of religion itself. Greece went badly off-track in the 1990s. I pray they will take heed of Socrates' statement -- "The unexamined life is not worth living."
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...7809218-4096018
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Cybergod
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Wünderland
Feb 2001
time: 05:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Ming
Hmmmm... maybe THEIR OWN GOVENMENT should be thinking about the people. He lets them starve... He builds more palaces... He lives the high life... His buddies live the high live... while his people starve. Yep, blame the US for the greed and selfishness of the people's own government... |
I'm not blamming USA for the greed and selfishness of Saddam's despotism, I am blamming the US army and politicians however for how they persistently attack this country and never ever letting them treat the surges of cancer and other diseases that the US has directly induced by its actions. The only way a dictator is toppled, is when his own people overthrow him. Even then, the remains of his corruption are left in power and take time to be plucked out. Not by "humanitarian interventions" to secure a "brighter future" under the west's corporate power.
And a little note about the "Unholy Alliance"...
We, the Serbs have been denounced as immoral demonic and abominal creatures by the west's "democratic" view of the world. And do not think that the other sides in the conflicts were angels. Take a look at Kosovo for example - the British media published figures "100,000" are massacred... "500,000" are killed... "near one million are slaughtered in the killing of the century"... and at the end of the conflict, when the UN came on the ground to find the infamous mass graves - they couldn't find a single one. There was not a single piece of evidence found, and the total number killed in the war (in Kosovo area) was around 2000 and that was including Serbs, Romas and other non-Albanians who were murdered by the "freedom fighting" KLA. And do not think life in Serbia in the 90s was heaven - you had to work at least 2 jobs to sustain a family and sell off possesions at flea markets.
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12-09-2002 22:36
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