13-09-2002 03:57									#61
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to (try and) focus the discussion on two particular quotes from Mandela once again as they were not really discussed so far.

quote: If you look at those matters, you will come to the conclusion that the attitude of the United States of America is a threat to world peace. Because what [America] is saying is that if you are afraid of a veto in the Security Council, you can go outside and take action and violate the sovereignty of other countries. That is the message they are sending to the world.

and

quote: But it is the men who around him who are dinosaurs, who do not want him to belong to the modern age. The only man, the only person who wants to help Bush move to the modern era is Gen. Colin Powell, the secretary of State

	13-09-2002 04:27									#62
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Paiktis:

Heh. Perhaps the big, bad United States of America will just have to keep Helena Smith's article in mind the next time Turkey decides it wants to play with its boy-toy Greece.

	13-09-2002 04:49									#63
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GateKeeper, yeah, yeah you can kiss my glorious behind Meanwhile you are at war we are cooooling baby. We eat pop corn and watch you

Vetlegion,

quote: something about "greek and serbian flags tied together in the city of srebrenica"

Really? If that's true, it's very cool and makes me very proud Thank you!

Some Greeks did fight (edit: as privates) at the sides of the Serbs but our biggest contribution (I think) was as much humanitarian aid as we could manage (medecins, food suplies, clothing, money etc) to Serbia at a time when NOONE gave ANYTHING to the Serbian people (some "humanists") which was suffering not only because of the war but also because of the embargo and as much informal and unofficial disruption to NATO as we could. (delay, confuse, hold back, mislead, undermine etc - the communist party really excelled in this). Bare in mind that Milosevic was not ousted by the bombings. Much later the Serbs decided to oust him after defending their country from NATO's illegal aggresion.


BTW this is wrong

quote: I did not suspect the depths to which Greece might stoop to aid the butchers, rapists, mass-murderers, and torturers in Bosnia and Kosovo.

We were not helping the albanian terrorists. Unlike some others who even TRAINED them to do such things.

Namely, the US and Britain.


Too bad justice came from Al Qaeda for the US and by our domestic terrorist group 17N for Britain. (and I hear the IRA gives them regular punishment too). It should have been given through a court of law. If such doesn't exist people take the law in their own hands.


(Amazon is a tiny troll in front of me )

	13-09-2002 04:57									#64
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Oh and like the Croatians were not killers and rapists and murderers in the Yugoslav war...

and even before.... let me take you back to memory lane...

Nazi Germany invades. A 'Greater Croatia' is formed, also comprising most of Bosnia and western Serbia. A fascist puppet government is installed under Ante Pavelic. The regime acts brutally against Serbs and Jews as it seeks to create a Catholic, all-Croat republic. Hundreds of thousands lose their lives.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/europe/1097156.stm
the first northern balkan genocide...

"He who is without sin casts the first stone".


Take courage though. We are all still angels compared to the US and its holocaust across the globe the last 70 years. It has killed millions.

	13-09-2002 07:55									#65
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quote: It certainly wouldn't work as a defense if I used it in a murder trial

Thankfully the world system is anarchy and there is no judge.

--

As for 'freedom and democracy' when we go around invading places... which country doesn't use things that aren't 100% true to justify it's military actions?

	13-09-2002 08:19									#66
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

the human mind is a threat to world peace.

	13-09-2002 08:41									#67
	Re: Re: World's Policemen Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc How much aid are they leaching off the EU?

As much as Italy, Spain and Portugal? Perhaps even less?
Besides Greece pays as well her debts that are distributed among the European countries, although she receives more Even the French agriculture get funds from the European Union including a (small) part from Greece...

quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc They tried to ban Civ. What more need be said?

What a hoax
What the Greek people have to do with that?
That was a typical stupid buraeuctratic decision made by people living in a vacum, quite typical in most countries worldwide including yours.

It was widely criticized by the Greek media
Who do you think informed the international press and got worldwide news?
Not to mention that the Greek courts of law recognized the particular "law" unconstitutional, dropped the charges and dismissed the accused.

Not to mention that I suspect other motives behind that crappy decision that has something to do with the legal casinos and the elimination of competition

quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc backward nation with delusions that they matter on the world stage?

Your luck of historical knowledge will never permite you understand what our contribution to the world has been

You jump into rush conclusion before you even bother to read more carefully the whole story and back what you say making me wonder of you true motives

	13-09-2002 08:51									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Ming Plus... we've heard this anti american troll before. It sounded stupid and moronic then, and it still does. So at least be original...

It's really hard for someone to beleive that a state with such a power in its hands would play it saint :rolleye:

If comments of that type from non-American people seems as anti-Americanism to you then perhpas you should listen to similar domestic voices from respected people of your country. Besides it is your own people that critisizing your actions most than everyone
Well, at list some times

	13-09-2002 08:54									#69
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quote: Originally posted by VetLegion from a review on amazon.com: "....I lived through some of these times in Athens, and even though I was disturbed by the constant pro-Serb bias in the newspapers, I did not suspect the depths to which Greece might stoop to aid the butchers, rapists, mass-murderers, and torturers in Bosnia and Kosovo. To invoke the name of Christ in this effort mocks the essence of Christianity -- indeed of religion itself. Greece went badly off-track in the 1990s. I pray they will take heed of Socrates' statement -- "The unexamined life is not worth living."

What crap is this?

	13-09-2002 09:04									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Gatekeeper Turkey decides it wants to play with its boy-toy Greece.

Do you really beleive that Greek people afraid of that crap?

With an average of 9 hits for the Greek pilots for every single hit for the Turkish pilots I find it highly unlikely.

Besides history has proved that the Greeks are not an easy target when not splitted apart for domestic political reasons, which is a pretty often situation unfortunately

A genuine Greek characteric from the very ancient times

	13-09-2002 09:59									#71
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Keygen:

If I had taken it seriously, I wouldn't have included the smilies. **ROTFL** (You know what that means, don't you?)

Gatekeeper

	13-09-2002 10:02									#72
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Keygen:

And, yes, if the Greek city-states had been more united, perhaps they could have held off those Roman barbaroi. Still, they adapted much of your culture ... so in the end, who really won? You both did! Rome + Greece = ... heh, well, I'll leave it at that.

Gatekeeper

	13-09-2002 14:19									#73
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Keygen do you really believe Greece is able to defend itself ?

you spend 5% of your budget on military, and exactly that much of your budget is donated by EU, if EU decided to withdraw that money you would go bankrupt - no money to buy shiny american toys

also, when the first bomb hits greece, only tourist in it will be christiane amanpour live from athens, and how would your country survive a hit like that? (I mean hit on tourism, it could survive amanpour, maybe )

In a matter of weeks the whole thing would crumble and we would watch it on CNN


paiktis, Greece supported Milosevic and that is same as supporting Hitler

and Serbs overthrew Milosevic with the aid of nato. Who knows when they would do it themselves - the region simply couldnt wait any more for them to get it done.

	13-09-2002 15:37									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Cybergod And a little note about the "Unholy Alliance"... We, the Serbs have been denounced as immoral demonic and abominal creatures by the west's "democratic" view of the world. And do not think that the other sides in the conflicts were angels. Take a look at Kosovo for example - the British media published figures "100,000" are massacred... "500,000" are killed... "near one million are slaughtered in the killing of the century"... and at the end of the conflict, when the UN came on the ground to find the infamous mass graves - they couldn't find a single one. There was not a single piece of evidence found, and the total number killed in the war (in Kosovo area) was around 2000 and that was including Serbs, Romas and other non-Albanians who were murdered by the "freedom fighting" KLA.

When after occupation of Kosovo those "freedom fighters" attacked next target- Macedonia, NATO "peace keepers" run with tail between their legs from there. Great warriors, my ass. When the bullets start flying near them they asked such "demons" as Serbs to do their work. All this demonic bullsh*t about Serbs atrocities is no more then bullsh*t. Those guys needed smth to justify their aggression against Yugoslavia and they invented Albanian genocide and helped KLA wich is terrorist organisation by definition to gain control over part of Serbian territory.

quote: Really? If that's true, it's very cool and makes me very proud Thank you! Some Greeks did fight (edit: as privates) at the sides of the Serbs

Some Russians fought at Serb's side too. Too bad that not all. YeltSIN is a traitor of Slav brotherhood. It's a shame that we were so passive when we should have been act.

quote: and Serbs overthrew Milosevic with the aid of nato. Who knows when they would do it themselves - the region simply couldnt wait any more for them to get it done.

PURE BULLSH*T and PIZDESH.

	13-09-2002 16:21									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man Nobody mistakes Bay Street for a runway, at least But whatever floats your boat...

And you got away with that one ?
That stealth technology of ours is even better than i thought!

	13-09-2002 16:31									#76
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quote: Originally posted by VetLegion Keygen do you really believe Greece is able to defend itself ?

Far better than little crescent moon croatia my little vetlegion

quote: you spend 5% of your budget on military, and exactly that much of your budget is donated by EU, if EU decided to withdraw that money you would go bankrupt - no money to buy shiny american toys

check your sources 'cause you have that donation thingie wrong Also, before 1981 how did we buy them?

quote: also, when the first bomb hits greece, only tourist in it will be christiane amanpour live from athens, and how would your country survive a hit like that? (I mean hit on tourism, it could survive amanpour, maybe )

if a war happens I'll personally hunt down amanpour and kill her and she will be another "innocent victim" of a war

quote: In a matter of weeks the whole thing would crumble and we would watch it on CNN

little croatian we watchted YOU in TV getting your ass kicked by Serbs despite having ALL the help from the US. To make it up to you I promise a spectacular recapture of Constantinople

quote: paiktis, Greece supported Milosevic and that is same as supporting Hitler

Greece supported the Serbian people and peace in the region in general. Unless you think they are the same as hitler too Demons they are demons I tell you

quote: and Serbs overthrew Milosevic with the aid of nato.

False. NATO made them rally behind him.

	13-09-2002 16:43									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Gatekeeper Keygen: If I had taken it seriously, I wouldn't have included the smilies. **ROTFL** (You know what that means, don't you?) Gatekeeper

I put smilies all over my posts indicating some sort of fun but I am serious on what I write
Well, at list most of the times

Don't you?
It certainly looked like...
Don't try to turn things over

Oh what the hell, my appologies then
If you were really not serious at all

	13-09-2002 16:45									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Gatekeeper Keygen: And, yes, if the Greek city-states had been more united, perhaps they could have held off those Roman barbaroi. Still, they adapted much of your culture ... so in the end, who really won? You both did! Rome + Greece = ... heh, well, I'll leave it at that. Gatekeeper

True

	13-09-2002 17:11									#79
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quote: Originally posted by VetLegion Keygen do you really believe Greece is able to defend itself ?

Yes.

I assure you that I have a better perpective on the issue than you.

There was a critical period of 2-3 years some years ago where the Turkish if had attack could possibly but not 100% sure had done some serious damage to Greece but that times are over now

quote: Originally posted by VetLegion you spend 5% of your budget on military, and exactly that much of your budget is donated by EU, if EU decided to withdraw that money you would go bankrupt - no money to buy shiny american toys

We spend half of what you say and there is no chance that Europe will stop the donations soon. A reduce on the donations to all south European countries will be in effect after the year 2006 when countries from Eastern Europe will join the EU but it is expected to be not too great

I say it won't affect our budget but barely

Turkey has much worse economical problems than we have

quote: Originally posted by VetLegion also, when the first bomb hits greece, only tourist in it will be christiane amanpour live from athens, and how would your country survive a hit like that? (I mean hit on tourism, it could survive amanpour, maybe )

Does this mean it won't affect turism in Turkey?

Besides a war with all that modern weapon and in a critical area like the Agean it won't last much. None side can afford economically a war more than a week

And yes, beleive it or not some turist a few months after is over will start visiting Greece again

Our income is not only from turism

quote: Originally posted by VetLegion In a matter of weeks the whole thing would crumble and we would watch it on CNN

You mean as we watched the 11th of September?

quote: Originally posted by VetLegion paiktis, Greece supported Milosevic and that is same as supporting Hitler

Nobody can stand before Hitler

	13-09-2002 17:22									#80
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Too bad justice came from Al Qaeda for the US and by our domestic terrorist group 17N for Britain. (and I hear the IRA gives them regular punishment too).

No, no, no. Not justice!!!!
Call it whatever you want: self-defense, deserved revenge, murder, terror act, depending on your views, but justice: no, never.
No retaliating act by the victime itself can be ever called justice. 9/11 was not justice, it was barbarian justice (re: self-justice, revenge) and no US retaliation will EVER be justice either.
If you want to taunt the US, you may (with many maybes) say that 9/11 was american's way of applying justice directed against themselves (but allow me not to follow you 100% on that track).

quote: It should have been given through a court of law. If such doesn't exist people take the law in their own hands.

That's the problem. And as long as the nice guys (re: americans) don't want such a court of law, why should the bad guys do?
Let's continue the game of re-re-re-retaliation, 'for justice', because 'they deserve it', or because 'we have to show them we have balls'. That's how some claim to bring peace to the world... I have to confess that I lack the braincells to understand this.

	13-09-2002 17:26									#81
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c'etait une blague Dry. Trolling en anglais

	13-09-2002 17:30									#82
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quote: Originally posted by Serb All this demonic bullsh*t about Serbs atrocities is no more then bullsh*t. Those guys needed smth to justify their aggression against Yugoslavia and they invented Albanian genocide and helped KLA wich is terrorist organisation by definition to gain control over part of Serbian territory.

That genocide think is a fairy tale...
These skirmishes with few casualties from both sides can not be seriously considered as a genocide

The American bombing in Cosovo and Yougoslavia had probably more casualties than the skirmishes in Cosovo between the Albanians and Serbian.

Yes, in Bosnia extended atrocities took place and that's a black page on the Yougoslavian history But I am not sure why the Croatians who exercised the same atrocities are not refered.

Very one-sided point of view, too much CNN and the like

	13-09-2002 17:37									#83
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 c'etait une blague Dry. Trolling en anglais

Ah bon? apologize.
Oops, I need to practice more my english...
to be more present on apolyton... my boss won't be happy I fear.

	13-09-2002 17:47									#84
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quote: Originally posted by Keygen Very one-sided point of view, too much CNN and the like

Exactly.

	13-09-2002 17:47									#85
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Too bad justice came from Al Qaeda for the US

Have a little respect for the murdered workers from all over the world paiktis

This not a private conversation where we make jokes and have fun

Troll or not don't use it like a toy

	13-09-2002 17:56									#86
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argh you got me cornerned there (the troll was "retaliation" too though )

	13-09-2002 18:09									#87
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 argh you got me cornerned there (the troll was "retaliation" too though )

Ti fruta kikloforoun edo

Millame gia atoma mnimiodous vlakias

Pantos kalitera na min tous ti les toso asxima (enteka septemvriou)

	13-09-2002 20:13									#88
	Remove this text

all pro-milosevic, anti-NATO ppl in this post: no use in arguing with the westerners. Their lives practically revolve around CNN bullshit. The ridiculous comparison, Milosevic=Hitler is as natural a part of their lives as McDonalds and Coca-Cola.

However, if anyone here belongs to the diminishingly small minority of NATO citizens who actually have a flicker of doubt about NATO's propaganda, check this site out. Don't expect to be treated with the full content of the site at once, but browse around in the articles and read the analyses in full.

http://www.tenc.net

	13-09-2002 20:16									#89
	Re: Re: Re: World's Policemen Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Keygen What a hoax What the Greek people have to do with that?

Was the decision not made by thier elected representatives? The true test will be if you throw out the people who seem intent on emberassing Greece more than usual in the next election.

quote: Not to mention that I suspect other motives behind that crappy decision that has something to do with the legal casinos and the elimination of competition

I was going to mention stupid as well in my previous post but I didn't want to appear mean by picking unmercifully on the challenged.

quote: Your luck of historical knowledge will never permite you understand what our contribution to the world has been

Has been is the opperative word in this statement. It aptly describes the position of Greece today.

	13-09-2002 20:24									#90
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BTW, There were Serbian atrocities committed in Kosovo. It still didn't justify intervention though.