14-09-2002 06:01									#1
	Italian UU Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I have added Italy to the game what should their UU be?

EDIT:

I have also added:
Argentina
South Africa
Cuba
Brazil

Some UU suggestions for these too would be nice. I would also like units that come after 1900.

Last edited by Sheik on 14-09-2002 at 08:08

	14-09-2002 07:40									#2
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I'd say a post c.1500 unit, just off the top of my head maybe

Alpini - mountain troops (in addition to infantry) say 8-8-1 all terrain as road

Galleass - oversized Venetian galleys (16th C), armed with 50-70 cannon though these were mostly light weapons (anti personnel) say 2-1-3 sinks in ocean

My ideas for Italy are pretty thin

	16-09-2002 03:20									#3
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Italy after 1900? Hmm, how about the “Black-shirt,” weapon would be a billy club; animation would be a helmeted, black shirted thug brutally pummeling the victim into submission.

Argentina is a tough one, how about glass bottomed boats – so they can see the old Argentine navy. Make it a destroyer with the ability to carry a cruise missile or two.

South Africa should be something based on the Boers or something very modern. For a Boer unit you could use the explorer graphics give it the hidden nationality attribute, a decent defensive value, rapid movement and the ability to build a city with a pop cost of one. It goes out and captures workers and settlers pillaging the countryside and when it has had enough fun it can settle down.

Cuba - the “defector,” an amphibious unit that paddles off on a raft and joins another nearby civ would be the best choice but I don’t think that is possible. So instead use an infantry type unit, call it the “Mercenary,” and give it the hidden nationality attribute.

If I could have come up with a good uu for Brazil I would have used it in my scenario, so if anyone thinks of one I would be appreciative as well.

	16-09-2002 05:09									#4
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quote: Originally posted by miccofl For a Boer unit you could use the explorer graphics give it the hidden nationality attribute, a decent defensive value, rapid movement and the ability to build a city with a pop cost of one.

Wouldn't the hidden nationality be useless for a UU?

"Sir, we're being attacked by Panzers!"
"It most be those damned Aztecs!"

	17-09-2002 00:00									#5
	Bersaglieri Increase the size of your Attachments

In WWII, the Italian army was essentially split along class lines, with bottom-rung troops being called "Ragruppamenti" and the elite "Bersaglieri"; this latter title is still retained (I believe) in the modern-day Italian national police force. So Bersaglieri or Alpini could be their elite UU troops.

Other possibilities are the mini-submarine (WWII) -- the Italians fielded some excellent "frogmen" -- and Italian light armor. This would be, I think, a novel approach to a UU, as it would be inferior to everyone else's armor yet less expensive as well (the same approach could also be taken to Japanese armor in WWII).

-Oz

	17-09-2002 01:08									#6
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If you did go this way (Light Armor) Smoking Mirror's T-26 wouldn't be too far off the Italian WW2 look (M-13/40 I'm thinking here)

	18-09-2002 00:28									#7
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Thank you for the suggestions.

quote: If I could have come up with a good uu for Brazil I would have used it in my scenario, so if anyone thinks of one I would be appreciative as well.

Brazil is a tough one.

	18-09-2002 04:55									#8
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I think we might hav one! Check it: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...?threadid=61100 see zeh's posts.

	18-09-2002 05:44									#9
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Thank You, that was very helpful.

	20-09-2002 15:11									#10
	Re: Bersaglieri Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Ozymandias In WWII, the Italian army was essentially split along class lines, with bottom-rung troops being called "Ragruppamenti" and the elite "Bersaglieri"; this latter title is still retained (I believe) in the modern-day Italian national police force. So Bersaglieri or Alpini could be their elite UU troops. Other possibilities are the mini-submarine (WWII) -- the Italians fielded some excellent "frogmen" -- and Italian light armor. This would be, I think, a novel approach to a UU, as it would be inferior to everyone else's armor yet less expensive as well (the same approach could also be taken to Japanese armor in WWII). -Oz

I second. Bersaglieri with their funny hats with feathers are typical of Italy.

In a different period, I would probably choose the condottiera, a kind of private army led by a warlord.
If one could implement different prices for different units, it should be cheap to build but 2 gold per turn for maintenance.

	24-09-2002 20:58									#11
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How many gears does an Italian tank have?

10. 1 forward gear and 9 reverse

(If you don't get it then go ask a Greek)

	25-09-2002 01:27									#12
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Not a bad joke.

	25-09-2002 17:09									#13
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quote: Originally posted by TacticalGrace How many gears does an Italian tank have? 10. 1 forward gear and 9 reverse (If you don't get it then go ask a Greek)

I got it.

	28-09-2002 21:19									#14
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I am from Brazil so here's a few suggestions for a Brazilian UU...

1. The Slave (we imported more slaves than any other country in the world). It has a negative connotation, but history isn't always pretty. So maybe it could be a sort of worker unit that has a 0 population cost, and possibly an extra movement point just to make it worthwhile.

2. The Bandito. A possible Hidden Nationality unit useful for pillaging other civilization's infrastructure.

Brazil has never fought many wars, so we have very few great military leaders or specific weaponry. We did, however, fight a war with Paraguay in the late 1860s. The decisive weapon, since it was primarily a war over rivers, was the Ironclad. In fact, the Brazilian admiral used the ironclads in a brilliant new way by latching them together as they passed the main Paraguayan fortress, and they devestated the defenses there.

Also, during World War II, Brazil participated in the invasion of Italy. We only sent 25,000 troops, but nevertheless, our bombers were noted for their unique tactics. Traditionally, bombers of that era would fly high over the target, circle it, and then drop their payload. Not us. We flew in low, came out right over the target without circling, and dropped the bombs. The result was that we didn't get shot down as much. Unfortunately, we often destroyed the military installation and the hospital next door Accuracy was never a priority with us...

The weapons we've used in wars have been rather traditional. It is the application of them that has been unique.

	29-09-2002 08:33									#15
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Thank You for the suggestions.

	03-10-2002 05:01									#16
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Brazil - Jesuit Missionary, armed and treats all squares as roads. They're not known as fighting machines,
or Footballers, all attack and no defence.
Slavers- like in the Mission film, they're tough fast men, best at attacking primitive villages.. could be a blitz cavalry unit, can also capture lots of workers easily.

Italy - A rennaisance unit , a better Mediaval Infantry unit?(see PTW) probably a horse unit.. a cavalry with an attack of 8 maybe, but moves just 2.
Or a UU of a better Riflemen.

Argentina is known for horses too.. maybe it should have special cavalry, conquistadors..

I think A UU of a privateer pirate ship would be good too,

South Africa - Mercenaries, weak, low hitpoints but good at ambush attacks, maybe hidden nationality.
This countries well know for mercenaries to help the other african countries and in worldwide undesirable wars.

	06-10-2002 21:23									#17
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How are race relations in Brazil? I know this is off topic but I am interested to know.

ciao

quote: Originally posted by Dom Pedro II I am from Brazil so here's a few suggestions for a Brazilian UU... 1. The Slave (we imported more slaves than any other country in the world). It has a negative connotation, but history isn't always pretty. So maybe it could be a sort of worker unit that has a 0 population cost, and possibly an extra movement point just to make it worthwhile. 2. The Bandito. A possible Hidden Nationality unit useful for pillaging other civilization's infrastructure. Brazil has never fought many wars, so we have very few great military leaders or specific weaponry. We did, however, fight a war with Paraguay in the late 1860s. The decisive weapon, since it was primarily a war over rivers, was the Ironclad. In fact, the Brazilian admiral used the ironclads in a brilliant new way by latching them together as they passed the main Paraguayan fortress, and they devestated the defenses there. Also, during World War II, Brazil participated in the invasion of Italy. We only sent 25,000 troops, but nevertheless, our bombers were noted for their unique tactics. Traditionally, bombers of that era would fly high over the target, circle it, and then drop their payload. Not us. We flew in low, came out right over the target without circling, and dropped the bombs. The result was that we didn't get shot down as much. Unfortunately, we often destroyed the military installation and the hospital next door Accuracy was never a priority with us... The weapons we've used in wars have been rather traditional. It is the application of them that has been unique.

	18-10-2002 01:58									#18
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I think Italy should have a WW2 unit called the "Escort Fighter". It accompanies Nazi bombers on missions and then vanishes as soon as an American fighter is in sight.

	12-11-2002 11:38									#19
	Italian History Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

An Italian civ is difficult because not many Italians consider themselves fully Italian. I recently said this in another thread: but one thing Italians tend to agree that they have in common is the Roman Empire.

Are you keeping the Roman Empire in your mod? You may want to work that into your Italian civ. Particularly in keeping the Legionairre as an earlier unit.

During the medieval ages, "Italy" consisted of a number of small states -- eventually the most prominant being the Holy Roman Empire. Somehow using this to bring religion into the game might be useful: perhaps making temples and cathedrals more potent; or by creating a cleric character of some sort (cannot think up any good ways to fit such a chacter within the game, however).

During the renaissance, the northern states of "Italy" became a powerful cultural center of Europe. Again, a specific unit does not immediately come to mind for this era; but somehow having the civ be able to gain extra culture (perhaps create a library or cathedral for Italians that produces extra cultural points per turn).

During the beginning of the industrial revolution, the Bersaglieri (mentioned in a previous post) came to be well-known. I believe the force originated from Sardinia (capital: Turin). The Bersaglieri were a force of light infantry, which continue to exist today.
Here is the official page of the Bersaglieri: http://www.bersaglieri.net/
Here is a page containing history of the Bersaglieri: http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Q...75/bersagl1.htm

The early 20th Century (by this point, Italy had been unified) saw Italy's worst moments -- particularly during World War II. The Bersaglieri continued to exist as a light infantry unit, serving on the front lines during both World Wars. However, during World War II I do not believe that there were too many units distinctly Italian. At the time, Mussolini was a puppet for Hitler; and thus most units were merely German units with Italian names. I would suggest keeping the Bersaglieri, but possibly updating its power somewhat to compensate for new advances in weapons technology.

Modern Italy does not have too much that is distinctly Italian. The North tends to be more powerful economically and politically, while the South is more agricultural. This is similar to America during the 1800s, where the South seemed to be holding back the rest of the nation economically; but yet America could not survive without it. From a Northern viewpoint (thus I have bias, perhaps if any South Italians care to shed their own viewpoints: feel free), the South seems to be ruled by the Mafia, so perhaps having a Mafia unit may be useful. The North would remain more cultural and economical, perhaps like to the Renaissance era.

**I know, everything I said probably does not help you much. This is because there is no real "Italy" other than a name on a map. Italy consists more of a number of independent states allied into a confederacy. There are few distinct aspects of the nation, with the exception of the Roman Empire. You may wish to reconsider an Italian civ, unless you are planning to restrict it to a certain time period and even still possibly creating two or more different Italian civilizations.**

Here is a page with a lot of information on Italian history: http://humanities.byu.edu/classes/ital420/index.html

With regards to other civs:

South Africa -- Are you looking at before or after European colonization? Colonizing Africa thoroughly screwed up pretty much everything there... Also, within South Africa, are you looking at before or after apartheid?

Brazil -- I know of one thing that almost all Brazilians would agree to: a football player as their civ's specific unit!

(Hey there's an idea... a Civ mod consisting of football players instead of military units; and of course wars are fought through sport! I'll just leave that to any modders out there that more dedication to modding that I!)

	13-11-2002 05:56									#20
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South Africa - After the apartheid

Thanks for the info on Italy.

	13-11-2002 16:09									#21
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There is a nice unit doing the rounds,
You can find it on that 'other CIV site'...

It is the Lancia IZM, a funky Armoured car...I use it as Romes 2nd UU...

	13-12-2002 07:03									#22
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Brazil was settled by the Portugese, as opposed to the rest of South America being settled/colonized by the Spanish...so something along these lines. Jesuits were a strong influence in Brazilian culture as they advocated for equality amongst the Portugese and the indigenious population, something that did not happen among the Spanish. Maybe a Jesuit unit that had weak offense but very strong defense, good for protecting cities.