14-09-2002 15:08									#1
	Most Decisive Battle in WW2 Suffering from ads?

We all know how many battles were in WW2. The Battle of the Bulge, the Battle of Britain, D-Day, the list goes on.

But which was the most important?

	14-09-2002 15:22									#2
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The Battle of the Atlantic.

	14-09-2002 15:22									#3
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither The Battle of the Atlantic.

Yep

	14-09-2002 15:29									#4
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Why no Midway?

I voted for Moscow but yes the Battle of the Atlantic was the most important but it wasn't really a single battle anymore than the Battle of Britain was.

How about Poland? Thats what turned it into a World War.

	14-09-2002 15:33									#5
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Midway would be a good single turning point unlike most of the other ones.

The Atlantic was more of a running brawl. You don't want to fight one, but once your in it you have to win.

	14-09-2002 15:39									#6
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I'm with notyoueither. Midway was the only single battle of WW2 that actually turned the tide of affairs. All the other battles named were merely the logical result of past events.

	14-09-2002 15:46									#7
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Of those in the list, and from the German view, it is Stalingrad for me, which was the turning point against Russia. The Battle on England could have continued for years in the way it was. At D-Day, the war already was lost for Germany, only Hitler didn't realize that.

A more fundamental view: The Battle of Poland.

	14-09-2002 15:54									#8
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I disagree with nye and case. To me a decisive battle is one that if the alternate outcome had occured would have had dire consequences for the new losers.

Lose Midway, and the US would still have had the ability to win the war, all be it taking longer.

Lose the battle of Britain, and you lose British war efforts, leading to no US involvement in Europe.

Lose the battle the Atlantic and you have no liberating invasion of Europe. The battle only possible due to vicotry in the Battle of Britain

Lose Stalingrad and you lose, for all intents and purposes, Russian effort in the war.

If the US involvement in WW2 was not so large, and the US position precarious (e.g threat of mainland invasion) then I would agree Midway was decisive. As it happens, it is not.

Just my take on the issue

	14-09-2002 16:08									#9
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stalingrad wouldn't have meant russia dropping out, they would have kept on fighting, at least to the urals where much of their war production took place, the germans wouldn't of had the men and material to advance much beyond stalingrad anyway.

	14-09-2002 16:12									#10
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The SU wouldn't have dropped out, but they would not have been the juggernaut of a fighting unit that they were when trampling down on Berlin in 1945.

	14-09-2002 16:13									#11
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quote: stalingrad wouldn't have meant russia dropping out, they would have kept on fighting, at least to the urals where much of their war production took place, the germans wouldn't of had the men and material to advance much beyond stalingrad anyway.

Exactly. But it was turning point for Germany. After defeat at Stalingrad their chances to win the war were very close to zero. After Kursk- 0.00%

	14-09-2002 16:31									#12
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What a stupid list.

The decisive battle of the war against Japan was Midway. The Japanese navy never recovered.

The decisive battle of the war in Europe was Kursk. The German army never recovered.

	14-09-2002 16:38									#13
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The Japanese never stood a chance once the US got involved. So my vote is Pearl Harbour, in the sense that it started the US in WWII with the end rather inevitable for the Axis.

On the Eastern Front Moscow is more decisive.

	14-09-2002 16:54									#14
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Kursk sank

	14-09-2002 17:17									#15
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I'd rank them as...

Kursk
Stalingrad
Midway
Alamein.

...in descending order.

	14-09-2002 17:26									#16
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The battle for Britain, if Germany would have won this they could have focussed 100% on Russia.

Plus there would have been no chance in hell the US ever would have gotten the chance to invade France.

	14-09-2002 17:42									#17
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What on earth are the invasion of Italy and the battle of the Bulge doing there?One was hardly decisive, and one was hardly a battle.

As for decisive battles, I'd put the big Eastern Front battles all together, since I'm just not sure if Moscow, Stalingrad or Kursk was the most important.

Even if the Japanese had gained a 100% victory at Midway with 0% casualties, they would still have been crushed by American industrial capacity, plus, the small airbase at Midway would not have been especially helpful for conducting an invasion of an incredibly well defended Hawaii.

	14-09-2002 18:36									#18
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Most decisive is a though criteria, but following it, I would have to say Russia's Summer offensive following Kursk, 2 German army groups were rendered hors de combat, the Germans lost their foothood accross the Kerch peninsular, Italy dropped out of the conflict, the Soviets made it all the way to Kiev.

From this point, Russian offensives would only be stopped by troop exahuastion and supplies, not anything the Germans could do, you can't lose worse then the Germans did.

Midway in the Pacific ended Japanese expansion, but the Guadalcanal campaign cost them the war, that is where the attritioning of Japan was carried out.

The most IMPORTANT campaign was the battle of the Atlantic, without it, no "Bolero" (US build-up of forces in Britian), no Lend-Lease (Russian was kept alive by this from early42, to early43), no second front, nothing.

	14-09-2002 18:48									#19
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pearl harbor...otherwise we wouldn't have been in the war...atleast not for a while...

	14-09-2002 20:33									#20
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Stalingrad or Moscow.

	19-09-2002 11:50									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger On the Eastern Front Moscow is more decisive.

Decisive? Moscow wasn't even very significant

	19-09-2002 12:18									#22
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AH, I beg to differ. Hitler takes Moscow, he defeats the USSR, regardless of what Serb says. With the USSR out of the war, the Axis is stronger than Britain and the US. The Axis wins the war.

	19-09-2002 14:02									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Sandman What on earth are the invasion of Italy and the battle of the Bulge doing there?One was hardly decisive, and one was hardly a battle.

I'm not such that the guys who died in Italy would have been 100% agree with you, if they could express their mind.

Italy war was necessary to open a second front againt German forces.

	19-09-2002 14:13									#24
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I vote for Midway. The Japanese with their smaller fleet and much smaller industrial capacity desperately needed to retain their principal advantage, which was a decisive edge in Carriers. Midway took this away in one throw. Without Midway far more resources would have been sent to the Pacific in order to hold on to Hawaii and keep the lifeline to Australia open, especially when one considers that the U.S. may well have lost more carriers in a losing battle as well as not sinking the four Japanese carriers.

Aircraft that were sent to Europe would have been used to (relatively inefficiently) protect these vital base areas in the Pacific instead. The slow safe attrition that was used to build up an unstoppable force in the Pacific while throwing most of the shipbuilding effort into the Atlantic would not have been possible, with potentially dire effects for the Battle of the Atlantic. Even if the Japanese didn't press on to Hawaii, they could have nonetheless siezed Midway and Johnston Islands and pushed their submarine fleet much further west where land based air could not protect allied convoys from the United States, putting a further strain on allied shipping. Midway was a rarity for WWII, a truly decisive battle.

	19-09-2002 14:21									#25
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	19-09-2002 14:33									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse Decisive? Moscow wasn't even very significant

In what fashion?

It is the beginning of the end for the Germans. This is the first time the Soviets stopped the Germans in their advances for any signficant objectives. It is also a great morale booster if I haven't mistaken. The Winter Offensive following it is definitely very interesting.

	19-09-2002 15:16									#27
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I vote for the Battle of Britain. The RAF's victory ensured that the Germans would give up the idea of invading Britain.

If the RAF had lost, then everything changes. A German invasion would likely occur and Britain was in no shape to win a land battle. If Britain gets knocked out of the war then the Battle for the Atlantic becomes irrelevant, there is no El-Alamein, no invasion of Europe, no battle of the Bulge, the German war machine is not exposed to bombing raids, etc.

The Battle of Britain is also significant because the Germans could easily have won it.

	19-09-2002 15:20									#28
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Greece - Italy.

Greece defeats Italy, Germany has to divert troops, Russians wipe the floor with Germans after that delay.

	19-09-2002 17:45									#29
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Not that Russia would not have wiped the floor with the Germans and save Europe'ass anyway but we made it a bit more easy to do (OK Serb? )

	19-09-2002 17:57									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Tingkai The Battle of Britain is also significant because the Germans could easily have won it.

Thanks to the skill of British pilots and the madness of Hitler !