16-09-2002 16:35									#1
	Suggestions as new flags Suffering from ads?

When I recently started a very comprehensive thread about rules for new flags in the thread "Rasbey's flag initiative," I was already planning to suggest these flags. But as Ming closed the thread after 25 minutes, I had to ask Dan about the flags. He said they would be decided on case-to-case basis, so here's my suggestions as new flags on Poly.

First of all I want to underline that most of these flags would be justified as they're either flags of autonomous republics in the Russian Federation or tribal flags like the Sami flag that already has been accepted as a new additional flag. And also worth mentioning is that I have noticed that autonomous areas are given their own flags, so giving these autonomous republics their own appropriate flags would follow the current standards. This wouldn't neither split Russia, because Russia is as well-known a very multiethnic country after all.

The Russian Federation, autonomous republics



Adyagea



Altai



Bashkortostan



Buryatia



Chechnya



Chuvashia



Dagestan



Ingushetia



Kabardino-Balkaria



Kalmykia



Karachay-Cherkessia



Karelia



Khakassia



Komi



Mari El



Mordvia



North Ossetia



Yakutia or Sakha (sidenote: Sakha is the native Yakutian name, but it's also used nowadays as the English name)



Tatarstan



Tuva



Udmurtia

The map is provided as a reference, because I'm sure very few Apolytoners would otherwise know where Udmurtia is.



Official tribal flags of speakers of Finno-Ugric languages

These are all flags that can be compared to the Sami flag already available on Poly, so there's a good reason to accept these too.

I have underlined the alternative recommended.



East Karelians



Veps



Ingria or Ingrians



Livonia or Livonians

More about Livonia...

Virtual Livonia
Livlizt
"Baltic's Onetime Rulers Have Shrunk to a Handful," New York Times, December 4th, 1997

Sidenote: There's even "famous" Livonians. IMO the best known Livonian has to be the Live woman in Jules Verne's "Michael Strogoff, Courier of the Czar." BTW, I'm not trying to provoke a certain Latvian, but I'm just underlining Livonia because it's rather nice.

References for further reading and resources

World Flag Database - Here's you'll find the ratios for the flags (except Livonia, Ingria, Veps and East Karelians) and the original files.
Unrepresented Nations and Peoples Organisation - The details about all the minorities can be found here.
Categories on dmoz; 1, 2 - Enough links to keep you busy.
Some Finno-Ugrian links - "Some" links means a huge list of resources in this case.

All minorities or they autonomous republics listed here are members of the Unrepresented Nations and Peoples. Several of the members of UNPO (represented in the UN) have already their flags on Poly, i.e. Tibet, Aboriginals of Australia.

Markos,

I'm already wondering why you haven't demanded the flag of the Democratic Union of the Greek Ethnic Minority in Albania, member of UNPO, to be added on Poly.

P.S. Mods, please don't close this thread this time. Thanks!

	16-09-2002 16:40									#2
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I like Chuvastia and Ingushetia's ( * scrolls up to check the spelling * ) flags...

	16-09-2002 16:50									#3
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You went through all the trouble just to get the Karelian flag in and push some Finnish imperialist agenda? Good grief.

	16-09-2002 17:00									#4
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No, far away from that. Actually I don't like those who want to have the areas lost in the Tartu peacy treaty back. And those are very few; a couple of hundreds. BTW, didn't you notice that I said I underline Lavonia, because I like it? Karelia is included because it's one of the autonomous republics.

	16-09-2002 18:21									#5
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i was going to say post ante deletia right after i saw the topic of this thread, but instead i'm going to say that your obssessed.

And oh yeah, 3:1 says markos closes this one too

	16-09-2002 18:29									#6
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Seems the people are vexed by your love of vexillology, Rasbelin...

	16-09-2002 19:01									#7
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quote: Originally posted by H Tower i was going to say post ante deletia right after i saw the topic of this thread, but instead i'm going to say that your obssessed.

I'm not obsessed. I just want to use several of the flags I have listed here. Besides I mentioned that I have talked about the flags with the administration, so I do know that I might get at least one of the flags added. But of course I would like to see all of them added, as that would be more equal. Currently I'm just waiting for Markos or Dan to give a verdiction.

	16-09-2002 19:04									#8
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I used to like the flag feature, but now it's just a plank for silliness.

I would like consideration to be given to ending it.

	16-09-2002 19:40									#9
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If these regions really are autonomous, I see no reason for them not to get flags on Poly. Scotland isn't an autonomous regions, but we get our flag here.

	16-09-2002 20:32									#10
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All those are official autonomous republics in the Russian Federation. Recognised by the federational government and foreign countries too. Chechnya, Dagestan and Ingushetia are familiar from the war in the Caucasus. Karelia for it's links to it's past as a part of Finland (I'm not sure if the current administrative borders of the Karelia are now the same). Bashkortostan is the republic which national airline's plane crashed this summer near the Swiss border in southern Bavaria, Germany. Komi, Mari El, Karelia, Udmurtia and Mordvia have a strong population of peoples that are at least close linguistic relatives as speakers of Finno-Ugrian languages, but also possibly genetic ancestors. This is a part of the clue of the real origins of the Finns that no one has been able to solve so far.

I attached a map that shows the native population in percentage of the total population in the autonomous republics. It has not been scaled down in size, because you couldn't read it properly then.

	16-09-2002 22:04									#11
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How about The Soviet flag? Or just the Workers flag?

	16-09-2002 22:13									#12
	Inflate your Upload Space

How about the Third Reich's flag?

	16-09-2002 22:55									#13
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trying to get banned are we?

	16-09-2002 22:57									#14
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How about the flags of Audentior Independent Nation, the Flying Islands of Jasonia, United Demesos and the United Micronian Republic of Tymaria ?

	16-09-2002 23:01									#15
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by H Tower trying to get banned are we?

I don't think they'll ban chegitz for simply asking for the flag of the bloodiest, most vicious terror regime the world's ever seen.

Unless, of course, the harping gets to Ribanah heights.

	16-09-2002 23:11									#16
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i was talking about gangerolf and his nazi flag

	16-09-2002 23:23									#17
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Che and Gangerolf,

you're just trying to mess up my decent request for these flags that I do have valid and acceptable reasons to ask for. The swastika and the flag of the USSR are historical flags, and also the workers' red flag. I would be pleased to see the red flag on Poly, but I guess you need good reasons for asking it. In general I can, if needed, provide evidence that my requested flags are ones that could be listed on Poly, but you need more than one sentence, Che.

	16-09-2002 23:58									#18
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Obviously, if flags of dependent republics are going to be added (in which case, why not Texas and California, too?), the flag of an independent nation like the Iroquois Confederacy should have priority. Meanwhile, the Avatar will have to do, but of course that won't show up in the statistics.

	17-09-2002 00:05									#19
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There's a difference between provincies (= Texas, California) and autonomous areas and republics. If my suggestions aren't accepted, I will demand the removal of the Sami, Maori and the Aboriginal flags, because they're also UNPO members like the ones I have listed, but have been denied. I haven't created this situation with certain flags being accepted, while similar ones are being rejected.

	17-09-2002 00:34									#20
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quote: Originally posted by H Tower i was talking about gangerolf and his nazi flag

I'm just trying to point out that the Soviet and Nazi flags are equally bad.

	17-09-2002 00:38									#21
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Rasbelin, you have a point. In general, we should have clear rules about this. For instance, in the spirit of Civilization, shouldn't we also allow flags of nations that once were (is there an Aztec flag?), instead of only contemporary ones?
I know there's a whole lot of those, but the question deserves to be asked.
I could also imagine a rule where anything goes provided there is a minimum number of people willing to use a suggested flag (or, say, it simply won't show).

	17-09-2002 01:05									#22
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I guess I need to send an iquiry to Dan, because I have actually asked him about this flag issue, so I guess I might even get an answer.

	17-09-2002 01:09									#23
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Good points, but there really aren't any rules, unfortunately. It's simply "if dan or mark think it's good, it goes in." However, for fairness sakes, the autonomous (sp?) states should be included. But then again, how many russians do we have on this site? Would it be enough to make it pointful for them to add the flags?

Oh, if only Ontario were autonomous.

	17-09-2002 01:14									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Rasbelin There's a difference between provincies (= Texas, California) and autonomous areas and republics. If my suggestions aren't accepted, I will demand the removal of the Sami, Maori and the Aboriginal flags, because they're also UNPO members like the ones I have listed, but have been denied. I haven't created this situation with certain flags being accepted, while similar ones are being rejected.

Don't do that or they may get rid of all flags, which would be a bad thing.

I would say just provide a good reasin and a flag, and don't spam.

	17-09-2002 01:20									#25
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Okay, message sent to the bigshots.

Switch,

I bet the Russians would use the flags, unless they happen to live in Yakutia, because I doubt that the Internet is popular in Tuva. If you look at my maps, you'll get the point.

Level,

I don't yet consider this as spam. I'm just promoting the interests of minorities with autonomous republics and Finno-Ugric minorities that can be compared to the Sami that already have a flag.

	17-09-2002 01:23									#26
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quote: Originally posted by SwitchMoO Good points, but there really aren't any rules, unfortunately. It's simply "if dan or mark think it's good, it goes in."

Well, all we can do actually is to formulate a proposal.
If we have a rules suggestion and they like it, we have rules.

	17-09-2002 01:29									#27
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I actually suggested a set of flag rules in the thread "Rasbey's flag initiative" with arguements why the rules should be like that. I know it's fairly long, but it explains the dilemmas with approving flags (the Iroquis flag is mentioned ).

And quoting Ming from that thread...

quote: Rasbelin Enough is enough... The rules on Flags are simple... It's whatever Mark and Dan want them to be. This is not a Democracy. GIVE IT A REST!

So I was almost sent to Mingapulco that time.

	17-09-2002 01:47									#28
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[wondering voice]this thread is still around[/voice]

	17-09-2002 02:16									#29
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quote: Originally posted by SwitchMoO But then again, how many russians do we have on this site? Would it be enough to make it pointful for them to add the flags?

How many people from the British Antarctic Territory and Rwanda do we have on this site? Those flags are in the list...

	17-09-2002 02:19									#30
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Ribannah Well, all we can do actually is to formulate a proposal. If we have a rules suggestion and they like it, we have rules.

Proposal: ALL flags are accepted. Possibly excluding Nazi/Commie/Islamist flags for PC reasons.
I want at least 1000 flags to choose from