17-09-2002 16:13									#1
	Last chat of the 3rd Administration Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Tuesday, 2100GMT (2200 BST/1700EDT) will be the last chat and turns played for the 3rd Administration of Apolytonia. As I type this the new Admin is taking shape, under the capable hands of OPD and Apocalypse. As soon as the chat is finished and the save/report are posted, that's it for me and UnOrthOdOx.

If you have ever been meaning to come to a chat - this is the one to come to. We are in the midst of attacking Persia, and there will doubtless be many successful battles ahead - plus hopefully some conquests. Plus it would be nice to see as many there as possible. Play along with me if you like, or just watch as the war unfolds before you.

Thanks to everyone for bearing with me in my computer problems and chat ****-ups - it is very much appreciated.

I hope to see you in the chat, or the forums after.

For the last time as President,
MrWhereItsAt.

Last edited by MrWhereItsAt on 17-09-2002 at 17:01

	17-09-2002 16:20									#2
	Re: Last chat of the 3rd Administration Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt As I type this the new Admin is taking shape, under the capable hands of OPD and Apocalypse. As soon as the chat is finished and the save/report are posted, that's it for me and Apocalypse.

I'm confused, so Apocalypse is quitting?

	17-09-2002 16:46									#3
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MrWIA, did you mean "That's it for me and UnOrthOdOx?" .

Will MWIA and MrWheresItAt be making guest appearences? adaMada and adaMada42 will try to appear, at least for a few minutes, but they can't promise anything .

-- adaMada

	17-09-2002 16:59									#4
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Whhops. Tired mind. I did mean UnOrthOdOx.

	17-09-2002 17:34									#5
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He's just trying anything to make me stay in...

I will arrive at the chat around 2200 GMT. That is the quickest my schedule will allow. So, take your time with the turns, will ya? I would like to stop by at least to say farewell.

	17-09-2002 19:57									#6
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2100 GMT... Let's see: This means 1800 in Apolyton time, right? So it will be 1700 in my local time...
My poor and old brain is tired, so tired... (and smaller, too)
I’ve been in too many bars playing my sax, too many girls, too many nights... err... hmm... smoking banana peels and drinking fermented banana juice.
Yes, we have to pay the price!
I'll be there!

	17-09-2002 21:56									#7
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THe chat is in good ol' dalnet right? Haven't been to one since Pahraoh Ninot's time (am I showing my age?). Just out of curiosity, when did chats come back in, as opposed to turnthreads- it just passed me by.

	17-09-2002 22:09									#8
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MrWIA has been playing them over much of the term, but using the orders from the turnthreads to speed the process along. It seems to be working about as well as can be expected over the last three chats.

	17-09-2002 23:37									#9
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This is important:

I quoted this from the The GL debate tread .

quote: Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx We have a few hours left. THIS MUST BE DECIDED BEFORE THE CHAT! Either to cancel the chat, (thus violating the CoL based on the new amendment, but that is a whole other topic), or to wait for the use of the GL. No one is likely going to build Sun Tzu in the next 5 turns, but it would prevent us an opportunity for another GL. NYE, I think the concern is that Judges must APPEAR to be impartial. How can one now take these to court when you have so vocally pronounced your opinion and expect an impartial and fair trial. Other methods could have been used to get this into the open. PMing someone outside of the court, perhaps? I would be happy to hear out your concerns in private and post if something like this arises in the future, thus maintaining the impartiality of the court...

So, what should we do?

	17-09-2002 23:47									#10
	The GL "issue" Support Apolyton

Folks,

If the City Planner orders the building of Sun Tzu and Aggie orders the GL to move to that city and we rush build the wonder via City Planner orders, then it's done. There's not going to be any Court thread because nothing illegal was done.

But if the City Planner chooses not to build Sun Tzu, then it doesn't matter what Aggie chooses to do with the wonder, or what the informal poll says.

As GK's final act of office, he gets to decide. Sun Tzu or wait.


As a sidenote, I will most likely be in attendance for the turnchat, however, I am very busy in the office today and I will be somewhat idle and will have the chat going on my computer while I'm working at my desk on some cases for tomorrow. If I idle or lag a bit, that's why.

--Togas

	17-09-2002 23:58									#11
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My opinion...

Since the CoL is silent on the control and use of GLs, I think the President should have a very large say in what is done. Perhaps agreement between the SMC, City Planner and the President would be a good idea, rather than a hot potato of jurisdictions.

The only thing I would like to stress is that the second poll, which may or may not be held up as a guide as to the wishes of the people, is in no way accurate and should not be used as such.

The choices were Army or ST. Army or wonder. If the decision is wonder, then what strategy for a wonder? That is unaddressed.

	18-09-2002 00:01									#12
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My first crisis! Our leader goes out in a scandal!

"RamsesGate"

Yuck! Yuck! I smell a Gazette story!

	18-09-2002 00:05									#13
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I officially petition that the GL NOT be used this chat. The people should have a say, and since no official poll has determined their will, we should wait until that will is iterpretted. I have created a poll, and believe we should therefore wait.

	18-09-2002 00:10									#14
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Waiting is the LAST thing we'll want to do. Especially if it's because we can't decide fast enough.

There has been a lot of debate and (unofficial) polling going on, so I think a decision should be made based on these.

(what I REALLY think is to let poor Ramses decide for himself...)

	18-09-2002 00:13									#15
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The majority of the citizens stressed he be used now, by not using him for the next 5 turns you are siding with the minority and going against the wishes of the majority or Apolytonia's citizens.

	18-09-2002 00:15									#16
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Personally, I see two real options:

Waiting to use the GL, or suspending todays chat.

I would support either, even though I am personally for Sun Tzu, we need to make this official IMO.

	18-09-2002 00:15									#17
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The only thing I would like to stress is that the second poll, which may or may not be held up as a guide as to the wishes of the people, is in no way accurate and should not be used as such.

The choices were Army or ST. Army or wonder. If the decision is wonder, then what strategy for a wonder? That is unaddressed.

	18-09-2002 00:22									#18
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If you want this to be "a Democracy Game" I think there are only two options.

Postpone the chat until the end of the poll to clarify what the people want to do.

OR

Use him for Sun Tzu as that appeared to be the more popular choice. I'm not going to say building Sun Tzu was what the majority wanted, but most people wanted to build the Sistine Chapel AND wanted to use Ramses immediately and we can't do both.

	18-09-2002 00:32									#19
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I posted this in the GL thread, by mistake

I say either we all agree or we hold it in reserve for 5 turns. I really want the game to go on. If we lose Sun Tsu and sistine, then we use our leader for an army. This is unlikely but possible. The odds are still in our favor it will be there in 5 turns. We will send 4/5 elites into battle in about 3 turns so we have roughly a 1/3 chance of getting a leader this turnchat. But that also means we have 2/3 chance of not. But hopefully me,MWIA and Godking can all agree then we'll do it now.
Aggie

	18-09-2002 00:37									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Aggie I posted this in the GL thread, by mistake I say either we all agree or we hold it in reserve for 5 turns. I really want the game to go on. If we lose Sun Tsu and sistine, then we use our leader for an army. This is unlikely but possible. The odds are still in our favor it will be there in 5 turns. We will send 4/5 elites into battle in about 3 turns so we have roughly a 1/3 chance of getting a leader this turnchat. But that also means we have 2/3 chance of not. But hopefully me,MWIA and Godking can all agree then we'll do it now. Aggie

We have a 1/3 chance of getting a GL this chat.
IIRC you can only have one GL at any one time so just waiting should not be an option.

	18-09-2002 00:41									#21
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What makes a poll "official" or "unofficial", anyway ?

	18-09-2002 00:42									#22
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I change my stand:

I say we should suspend this chat and risk the fury of the courts for violating the very amendment I implimented. It is the only way all side can voice their opinion, and have it done officially. I can ask for the poll to be changed to a three day limit to speed the next turns play should we suspend todays turns.

	18-09-2002 00:44									#23
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by BigFurryMonster What makes a poll "official" or "unofficial", anyway ?

Official polls must have certain rules apply. Open for at least 3 days, unbiased first post, options clear...All polls are considered official unless otherwise stated, or declared invalid by the court. Expect that last part to change, though, with the new constitution.

	18-09-2002 00:48									#24
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quote: Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx I change my stand: I say we should suspend this chat and risk the fury of the courts for violating the very amendment I implimented. It is the only way all side can voice their opinion, and have it done officially. I can ask for the poll to be changed to a three day limit to speed the next turns play should we suspend todays turns.

Bhah just build the damn Zu.





The judges will probably screw you if you don't play the turns what with the changing administrator amendment.

	18-09-2002 00:51									#25
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Sun Who?

Sun Tzu.

	18-09-2002 00:52									#26
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At what time is the chat scheduled? The GMT notation confuses me a bit. Is Europe +1 or +2 from it?
(to answer: check out the time near my name in the left panel and compare it to your time)

	18-09-2002 00:56									#27
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quote: Originally posted by OPD We have a 1/3 chance of getting a GL this chat. IIRC you can only have one GL at any one time so just waiting should not be an option.

It is NOT 1/3!!!

It remains 1/16 for each battle. 5 battles will be 5/80, not 5/16...

	18-09-2002 01:06									#28
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I posted this elsewhere already:

-----
You can come up with the correct formula in the following way: every battle, the chance of NOT getting a Leader is 15/16. The chance of this occurring 5 times in a row is: (15/16)^5, or 759375/1048576 = (about) 72%. So, the chance of getting AT LEAST ONE Leader is 100% - 72% = 28%

	18-09-2002 01:06									#29
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quote: Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx It is NOT 1/3!!! It remains 1/16 for each battle. 5 battles will be 5/80, not 5/16...

Now who's distorting math.

The more Elites you have winning battles, the better chance you have at getting a GL not the opposite.

If this Elite fails to generate a GL it does not decrease the odds of the next one. Which is exactly what your numbers suggest.

Five successful attacks are 5 1/16 shots at a GL or 5/16 (5 chances out of 16) by sheer mathmatics it does come out to a roughly 33% chance of generating a GL. They are independent however as 16 attacks is not a guaranteed GL but the statistical odds are that you should have a GL after 16 attacks.

	18-09-2002 01:08									#30
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BFM: it will be 11 o clock your time I hope.

UnOr: I dunno I was just quoting Aggie.

Snip
Statistics sucks

Last edited by OPD on 18-09-2002 at 01:28