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Pedrunn
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of Natal, Brazil
Jul 2001
time: 02:22
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I want to know what you guys think:
Trade System
here what i suggest:
Goods
They are pretty much the same as they usually are. Graphics in the map that you collect creating a city near them.
But i plan to make these goods depletable. As you harvest it it looses a certain amount that is defined in the beggining of the game when this amout reachs 0 it gets depleted.
How to know how much there is in a good reserve?
We could create Tile Improvements that show some values in the bottom of the good like:
1-5, 6-10, 11-15, 20-30, 30-50, 50+
Good Bonus
- All godds adds gold, food or prodution depending on its type. This is already implemented in mods through martin's code.
- Most of the goods will give an bonus in happiness in the best civ3 luxuries styles.
- Some goods will be necessary to create certain units, buildings and maybe wonders.
Selling Goods
The selling of the goods continues being managed by the trade screen. You choose a city to send it and sells the good. But here is where it starts the changes. Instead of creating a trade route a message pop up. Asking for how much gold do you want to sell every amount of the good and the maximum amount the buyer can actually buy. If the buyer accepts the offer a good of same kind as traded will show up next to the city wich was send with a label under the good (TI) written "Via Trade". And the amount of good as explained above.
This way the city who bought it will have the good bonuses including the building of certain units and building as explained. It can eve sell it to others players or send to another city of yours so that it gets the bonus (being careful since it will disappear after the certain amount reachs 0.
Buying Goods
This will be a bit harder and will have to be done through messageboxes.
Here how it works.
Select a city that belongs t you. Them find a city that has the good being harvested.
When clicking in a city that doesnt belong to you a message pop up telling wich goods are being harvested there. The player chooses one and the seller gives a certain gold value for it and a maximum number allowed to sell if he will accept to sell. The buyer them tell how much good amount he will want and them a good will be created in the city previouly selected.
goods
Here is a list i came up with 30 goods
code:
Forest Coal Hard Wood Bears
Plains Horses Elephants Spices
Tundra Bauxite Oil Caribou
Glacier Diamond Bauxite Seals
Grassland Horses Cattle Tobacco
Desert Saltpeter Oil Dates
Swamp Saltpeter Oil Alligator
Jungle Saltpeter Elephant Sugar
Mountain Iridium Iron Tea
Hill Coal Iron Coffee
Brown Hill Diamonds Bauxite Copper
Brown Mountain Iridium Iron Copper
White Hill Bauxite Oil Rubies
White Mountain Diamods Rubies Iron
Water Shallow Shallow Fish Crustaceous Pearls
Water Deep Deep Fish Whales ShellFish
Water Volcano Deep Fish Whales Diamonds
Water Beach Shallow Fish Crustaceous Pearls
Water shelf Deep Fish Whales Oil
Water Rift Deep Fish Whales Oil
Water Kelp Shallow Fish Crustaceous Pearls
Water Reef Shallow Fish Crustaceous Pearls
Obs there still can be chose 1 for each terrain.
code:
Good Source
Coal GoodMod
Hard Wood CTP2
Bears CTP2
Horses CIV3
Elephants CTP2
Spices CTP2
Bauxite GoodMod
Oil CTP2
Caribou CTP2
Diamond CTP2
Seals GoodMod
Cattle CTP1 cattle unit
Tobacco CTP2
Saltpeter CIV3
Dates GoodMod
Alligator CTP2
Sugar CTP
Iridium ???
Iron GoodMod
Tea CTP2
Coffee CTP2
Copper GoodMod
Rubies CTP2
Fish GoodMod
Crustaceous CTP2 Crabs
Pearls CTP2
Whales CTP2
ShellFishs CTP2 giant squid
Other Features to think about :
- Stored Food - If a city has growth at the maximum value (10.000) will be created a food good (probably the best graphic is the goodmod rice) wich can be traded and protects a city from starvation or may boost the food in a city or terrain.
- Colonies - With this system colonies will be Tile improvements that sends a good to its owner the nearest city. The colonies can be created by units with the order create colony or could be places as regular imps. The lavel "Via Colony" Can be added.
- Pirating - Instead of pirating trade routes you have to pirate goods. A pirated good has some amounts of it sent to the nearest city. The lavel "Via Piracy" Can be added.
Forget all about trade routes they have to be dropped because i cant control when they broke.
Last edited by Pedrunn on 20-09-2002 at 08:23
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ahenobarb
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Very Amibitious, Pedrunn. I like the ideas a lot!
On top of what you proprose, I would like to add the concept of "finished goods". A city that is receiving cotton for instance, could build a textile mill through which a new good "linen" would be produced. Or tobacco to cigars, iron to cars, etc. the secondary or finished goods would have more value than the original good.
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Pedrunn
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of Natal, Brazil
Jul 2001
time: 02:22
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Nice to see you guys liked. I was afraid i was going too radical. Specially because with this feature the city will be surrounded by a dozen of goods wich may look a bit odd yet really cool.
Finished goods, This is possible and is really a good idea but comes the graphic problem. I will try to do the code first. If everything works out we can try this.
Locutus. I left a empty space for every terrain for this mainly. I wanted to hear some thoughts from the community. So can be easily added new goods without having to create new terrains.
Salt, nice point i believe the best is for beach and desert terrains
Silk and Cotton, those are related and i want my system to include the most number of goods of earh it can thats why i renamed crabs to crustaceous and giat squid to shellfishs. So we can add the silk (although i think odd to drop a original good) to the system. But i could say the animal also give the same as silk when comes to bonus (as fur). So i guess just cotton (maybe renamed for something else to include others plants that give silk) is fine.
Rice, I did not incleded because i was thinkin in the food feature i suggested. But it can be included and as a see renaming it for cereal wich means it will include the 5 types of cereal in the world that are the basis of human alimentation.
Note: i cant remember wich the other three other than rice and wheat are type of foods classified as cereal. And i am getting curious 
Uranium, funny this should have been included for nukes  I guesss i got things mixed up with Iridium. It will be in. 
Gold and Silver, I thougt that those goods were better off specially gold since the monetary currency of the game is gold.
Tungsten, This is a nice good.
Grapes, nice one but i was thinking more in a Fruits goods from the nordicus civ3 reources. What you think?
Hemp, Other than to make paper (wich i believe can be done by others world resources) and smoke  wich are the real benefits. While creating the list of goods i really considered rename tobacco for Drugs to make it more general but i thought it did not looked good but the Drugs good would be nice.
Dye, this is in the front in the list of the luxury-like goods to be added
Rubber, that can be added but i am afraid we will have to add a new terrain to jungles. This type of terain is far the one with most number of possible goods.
Jade, is this really that important? I considered create a jewlry good and create a new sprite with graphics of the rubies, diamonds, emeralds, saphires and jade squeezed together. What you think?
Last edited by Pedrunn on 21-09-2002 at 17:23
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Locutus
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ACS CTP1/2 Manager & Civ4 Co-Manager
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Hengelo, The Netherlands
Nov 1999
time: 06:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Pedrunn
Locutus. I left a empty space for every terrain for this mainly. I wanted to hear some thoughts from the community. So can be easily added new goods without having to create new terrains. |
I figured that, hence my post 
quote:
Silk and Cotton, those are related and i want my system to include the most number of goods of earh it can thats why i renamed crabs to crustaceous and giat squid to shellfishs. |
Cotton and Silk are quite different. Cotton comes from a plant, Silk from an animal. Cotton has been used since the beginning of time to produce everyday clothing (it's cheap and durable, but not particularly strong), Silk has always been a luxury (it's very expensive and also VERY strong - one of the strongest materials on earth, the Mongols and later other Asians used it as armour). Silk was one of the major trading goods of pre-colonial time ('Silk Road' anyone?), Cotton was one of the major trading goods of from colonial times onwards. So although both are used as material for clothing, they are very different (just as Copper and Iron are different, even though there both metals and mainly used for tools and weapons). Cotton *is* quite similar to Flax, Linen, Wool (although Wool too comes from animals), etc, so I would agree that it's not a good idea to have all of these included as well.
Edit: an additional difference is that Silk is a product (originally) exclusive to China, whereas Cotton and similar products can be found pretty much all over the world.
quote:
Rice, I did not incleded because i was thinkin in the food feature i suggested. But it can be included and as a see renaming it for cereal wich means it will include the 5 types of cereal in the world that are the basis of human alimentation.
Note: i cant remember wich the other three other than rice and wheat are type of foods classified as cereal. And i am getting curious |
5 types of cereal grains? :confuse: I can name 6: rice, wheat, maize, barley, rye, oats. I guess generalizing all of these as one type of trade good makes sense...
quote:
Gold and Silver, I thougt that those goods were better off specially gold since the monetary currency of the game is gold. |
They're amongst the most important trade goods in human history, why?? Who cares if gold is also the term for currency? That doesn't take anything away from it's importance as a trade good in human history...
quote:
Grapes, nice one but i was thinking more in a Fruits goods from the nordicus civ3 reources. What you think? |
The difference between Grapes and Apples or Banana's or whatever is that Wine is made from it, that IMHO makes it worthy of a seperate trade good...
quote:
Hemp, Other than to make paper (wich i believe can be done by others world resources) and smoke wich are the real benefits. While creating the list of goods i really considered rename tobacco for Drugs to make it more general but i thought it did not looked good but the Drugs good would be nice. |
Ah, the usual stereotype: hemp == pot. Hemp has always been a MAYOR resource with far more uses than just as a drug: it's used for ropes, clothing, paper, food, paint, construction (it's stronger than steel but more workable than wood!), fuel, medicin, etc. If overly paranoid governments hadn't declared it illegal, it would dominate the marketplace today...
quote:
Rubber, that can be added but i am afraid we will have to add a new terrain to jungles. This type of terain is far the one with most number of possible goods. |
True, Jungle is a very diverse type of terrain but you still have one slot free and Saltpeter is already present in several other terrain types (and it makes to no sense to have Saltpeter in Jungle: it's usually found in dry places such as deserts and mountains (Arabia, not in humid places like Jungle)...
quote:
Jade, is this really that important? |
YES! Jade was to the Far East Asians (primarily Chinese) and pre-Columbian Americans (Maya, Aztec, Inca) what Gold is to us Westerners: the most precious, enchanting and valuable material around. We had our colonial conquests in the 16th/17th century and our Gold Rushes in the 19th century, the Chinese and Americans both had a similar obsession with Jade. It's just another gem to us, but it's been a VERY important material for numerous other civilizations.
Last edited by Locutus on 22-09-2002 at 03:53
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Locutus
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ACS CTP1/2 Manager & Civ4 Co-Manager
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Hengelo, The Netherlands
Nov 1999
time: 06:22
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Although Jade had the same 'enchanting' effect as Gold, it was AFAIK never actually used as currency (probably because it's much rarer). Metals (gold and silver but many others as well: bronze, tin, copper, nickel, etc) are by far the most common form of currency. If you are looking for an alternative form of currency, I would suggest Salt. It was used a form of currency for a long time throughout Eurasia (but mostly Europe and the Near East) and Africa - and it is in fact still in use as currency in some parts of Africa today (not as an official national currency of course).
Jade was initially used for tools and weapons and such because of it's hardness (like metals) - and was later, as people assigned more value and significance to it, only used for jewelry and ornaments and such, like (among others) the pre-Columbian Americans and Egyptians did with gold. But unless I'm very much mistaken, it never served as currency.
Last edited by Locutus on 22-09-2002 at 03:56
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Pedrunn
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of Natal, Brazil
Jul 2001
time: 02:22
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Thats just too many goods. Thats why i want to make one generic good for the goods istead of making one really specific yet important one. Therefor goods like fish (instead of tuna, salmon and other ones), crustaceous (instead of crabs and lobsters), cereal grains (instead of rice, wheat) and some other thoughts like gems (instead of rubies, emeralds, jade...), fruits (instead of grapes, banana, apple, etc..), unstable athoms (instead of lithium, uranium), drugs (intead of oppium, tobacco), fossile fuels (instead of coal and oil).
Although we have sprites and tgas for all these goods. Since we have a limit of four per terrain and i dont wnat to add any other type of terrain if not special ones.
Not to mention i want to cover as many worldwide possible goods as i can. So it has to be a generic system.
I will do the code with my generalization idea even if unpleases lot of people (although i cn understand these people). But once the code is done we can think on new additions. After all we could keep dicussing here for ages about this.
I have your post in The good possibilities printed since last week and it was the basis of my good distribution. Of course i did made some changes and if you notice i just made the strategic resources more avaible in a larger number of terrains type.
Hey, just a curiosity. Is diamond classified as gem?
PS:
Why two '='? I wonder if you start counting from zero  
Last edited by Pedrunn on 23-09-2002 at 01:56
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Locutus
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ACS CTP1/2 Manager & Civ4 Co-Manager
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Hengelo, The Netherlands
Nov 1999
time: 06:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Pedrunn
Thats just too many goods. |
Yes, I said that, the last batch is to fill in the blanks where more goods are still needed. Now you have more choice, that can't be bad
quote:
Thats why i want to make one generic good for the goods istead of making one really specific yet important one. Therefor goods like fish (instead of tuna, salmon and other ones), crustaceous (instead of crabs and lobsters), cereal grains (instead of rice, wheat) and some other thoughts like gems (instead of rubies, emeralds, jade...), fruits (instead of grapes, banana, apple, etc..), unstable athoms (instead of lithium, uranium), drugs (intead of oppium, tobacco), fossile fuels (instead of coal and oil). |
I basically agree with this but you shouldn't go too far. Emeralds and Rubies can be merged, but Jade should remain seperate. Grapes deserve a seperate mention: Fruit is just for food consumption but Grapes are an important basis for alcoholic beverages as well - Olives can be used for oil, so you might want to consider a seperate entry here as well, if there's room. 'Unstable atoms' or 'fossile fuel' is just silly IMHO, far too generic. I agree on Fruit, Gem, Fish, Grain/Cereal (the more often I read it, the more I like the term 'Cereal'), Crustaceous though, with the changes I mentioned.
quote:
Is diamond classified as gem? |
Yes, it's far more Gem-like than Jade
quote:
I wonder if you start counting from zero |
You mean there are people who don't?
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20-09-2002 08:14
I didnt see Camels in the list...... Camels where very important, they where the equivilent to what horses where to Western civilzations (and others) .
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