21-09-2002 07:46									#61
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quote: Well, they both make decisions and judgments and hold opinions, so I can see why the matter could potentially be confusing.

Damn you. I said I misspoke. Is that so hard for you to understand? Gays are humans. Dogs are not.

	21-09-2002 07:46									#62
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara AFAIK, only one country recognizes gay marriages, the Netherlands.

I could be crazy, but I believe that Germany recognizes Gay marriage as well, also Denmark.

	21-09-2002 08:26									#63
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quote: Originally posted by jimmytrick Yeah, its a sin.

Could you point out that passage, please, where it says two people of the same sex being married is a sin? Thanks.

	21-09-2002 08:30									#64
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Go ahead and take a walk or read a book or something, Emperor. It'll take him a while to find that passage.

If fact, why don't you start working on your Ph.D. in astrophysics. And take your time about it.

	21-09-2002 08:36									#65
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it doesn't say anything against marriage of the same sex..it says that it is "wrong" for a man to lie with another man as he lies with a woman (Leviticus 18:22)..
and because the US government is run by middle aged white Christian men who can't separate church and state to save their lives, the Constitutional rights of gays are trampled on. ...

	21-09-2002 09:17									#66
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Well, I don't lie with men and I don't lie with women either, so I guess I'm all set...

I've always said that honesty is the best policy!

	21-09-2002 09:30									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Lincoln: It's probably better to be an atheist, pro-abortionist, Christian bashing bigoted left wing looney. Then you can pretend that you know everything and judge the rest of the planet.

I'm an orthodox Protestant, so I don't necessarily want to defend Christian-bashing atheists. But allow me to make an observation... the Christians who seem to get bashed the most are the Christians who are the greatest hypocrites.

If a Christian goes out in public and thumps the Bible and says that homosexuality is a sin while in private he tells lies, commits adultery, "cybers" with naked under-aged girls on webcams, and indulges in various other forms of (heterosexual) immorality, then he is a hypocrite of the worst kind. And I really don't blame atheists for bashing somebody like that.

	21-09-2002 10:12									#68
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This is what happens when one has a life I suppose -- you're gone for a week, and you miss on 20 new threads.

Ok, here are several things I want to add:

1) I don't see any good in forcing religions by law, to recognize gay marriages -- they need to make progress on their own, through their institutions (not going very far, but that is where I stand with that)

2) As for state and federal government recognition? I advocate legal recognition in the state and federal governments of homosexual civil unions.

3) Lincoln thought he was being funny with his posts, but I didn't find anything funny. But then again, what do I know about humor?

	21-09-2002 10:15									#69
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As for the thread author's original question.

The reason why I believe homosexual civil unions are not legally recognized, is because of the socially accepted norm of degenerating people who have different sexual orientation than that of heterosexuals.

It's the social norm to see homosexuals as undeserving of equal rights -- but fortunately, we are making real progress against this social norm.

	21-09-2002 10:33									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer Go ahead and take a walk or read a book or something, Emperor. It'll take him a while to find that passage. If fact, why don't you start working on your Ph.D. in astrophysics. And take your time about it.

We need to have a :sarcasm: smilie

	21-09-2002 10:49									#71
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quote: Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous We need to have a :sarcasm: smilie

We do-> <- :roll eyes: but without the space

	21-09-2002 11:32									#72
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun The reason why I believe homosexual civil unions are not legally recognized, is because of the socially accepted norm of degenerating people who have different sexual orientation than that of heterosexuals.

Marriages, not civil unions. Civil unions are recgonized. at least in Vermont. Because of the Full Faith and Credit Clause, all other states must recognize the relationship, even if it has no meaning outside Vermont.

	21-09-2002 11:37									#73
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Why does the government have to be involved with marriage in the first place.

Government

	21-09-2002 11:44									#74
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That would require an essay to explain. The $0.25 version is that government has a compelling interest in fostering the basic relationship in society and helping foster future generations.

	21-09-2002 11:45									#75
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Marriage has legal status in American law. Same sex unions do not enjoy that status. It seems to make some sense because in some cases law has been crafted to ensure that families have special provisions to the benefit of children. Same sex unions do not produce children.

	21-09-2002 11:51									#76
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However, they can have children. Gay people can both adopt as well as have children the natural way (i.e., with an opposite sex partner), in vitro fertilization, etc. Therefore the lack of raising children argument isn't a viable argument.

	21-09-2002 12:03									#77
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well the $.25 cents reply is that it is not government's role to foster the basic relationship in society or to help foster future generations.

	21-09-2002 12:05									#78
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara AFAIK, only one country recognizes gay marriages, the Netherlands. The reason no other country (that I know of) recognizes gay marriages is because of religion, pure and simple.

Does China recognize Gay Marriage? Does North Korea? Does Cuba? Did the USSR? Did the Paris Commune?

	21-09-2002 12:17									#79
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The USSR did recognize gay marriages before Stalin took over. Marriages were a lot simpler and easier to get out of before Stalin also. In so many ways, Stalin ruined everything. Of course, if the USSR banned same sex relationships, all socialist countries after Stalin had to do so also.

It is a "bourgeoise sexual deviation," the ultimate expression of men's hatred of women or something BS. This is why you only find Trotskyists openly supporting homosexual rights among the communist movement, and embarassingly, that was only recently, in the last 30 years.

The Commune was rather retrograde in its recognition of rights. Women didn't have the vote in the Commune, but it only lasted 71 days, so we can't really tell how things would have moved. I can't even guess as to whether or not gay men had any rights.

The last time Castro was in NYC, a few years back, he was questioned about the oppression of gays in Cuba. He acknowledged that their treatment of gays was a problem and needed to be fixed, but I don't know what, if anything, has been done. However, the level of oppression in Cuba of gays was never as bad as was supposed. I've got an article around somewhere that discusses how that story came to be, but I'll be jiggered if I can remember where.

	21-09-2002 12:21									#80
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi well the $.25 cents reply is that it is not government's role to foster the basic relationship in society or to help foster future generations.

That's a value judgement. Outside of the libertarian world view, just about everyone agrees that the government does have a role in ensuring a stable society which perpetuates itself.

I personally think that civil marriages should be called something else and leave the word marriage to the religious folks.

	21-09-2002 12:37									#81
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I personally think that civil marriages should be called something else and leave the word marriage to the religious folks.

exactly

And 25 cents? What's up with your inflated price on your statements?

	21-09-2002 13:04									#82
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Unless Lincoln's willing to consummate the marriage with Poochy it's liable to annulment.

Lincoln? Can you confirm your willingness to doggylock?