24-09-2002 01:45									#31
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Well... What did you expect? They have never said that civ3 would get an events editor. Civ3 is not suited for scenarios.. a big "scenario" (as Firaxis would call it ) I downloaded and "played" was about 10! minutes to load. And that is on a 700mhz mashine running w2k. I would say that civ3 is very badly programmed.
Not saying i don't like the game. I think a normal game of civ3 is great, but if you want to play scenarios, play civ2 multiplayer gold - it has events and all - and alot of GREAT scenarios have been made by the civ2-community. The best I've played would be Harlan's LOTR scenario, it has events, units, sounds and a great story.

	24-09-2002 01:47									#32
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

And like Tiberius said: Scenarios are not the reason that I got civ3.

	24-09-2002 04:02									#33
	Suffering from ads?

i think: Bollocks...
...would go nice when boiled and served with chips/french fries.
oh, and the same goes with PTW, it would go well boiled and served with chips/french fries!

	24-09-2002 17:18									#34
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by HazieDaVampire i think: Bollocks... ...would go nice when boiled and served with chips/french fries. oh, and the same goes with PTW, it would go well boiled and served with chips/french fries!

What is the difference of chips and french fries?

	24-09-2002 17:21									#35
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by WarpStorm Define "full scenario capabilities". As a professional software requirements analyst, that is too nebulous a term to be useful. Anyone can interpret it differently.

It seems to me, from many posts here at Apolyton, that some features are quite well defined for a "full scenario capabilities".

I never built a scenario for Civ II, but I was waiting Civ III to try a couple of concept I had in my mind; let's use them as example:

Race to the Moon
I love aircraft and aerospace stuff, so I was thinking about a scenario to reproduce the race to the Moon of USA against USSR.

I needed a completely different tech tree, probably a reduced and focused map, a bunch of different units, a different time scale, probably some different building, some event to keep the scenario on a plausibile history track (e.g. a calculated destroyed productivity to simulate failed launch), very tight diplomatic rules to avoid a science run to become a world war because of a confused AI

Cuba crisis
See above, but with everything focused on a diplomatic game, with events to direct main event (e.g. every reconnaince mission that discover a new missile unit on Cuba should lower USA diplomatic attitude against USSR, a sinked USSR ship should raise the probability of a war, etc.

I probably had "border concept" scenario, but also a more common battle scenario, as Normandie in WWII, need events, custom time scale, dedicated units, diplomatic preset limits.

AFAIK current Civ III and PTW as announced let us do some Mod changing game values (some are still (hard coded" and unchangable), custom Map and units and some graphic change.

That said, I burned any plan to make a game scenario months ago, and now I'm really interested to see the Simultaneous and Turnless modes at work in Civ.
I repeated so many time that we need a different "turn" approach to keep the TBS games interesting vs. RTS games: now I hope to see a good result from Firaxis

	24-09-2002 20:51									#36
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I really have no idea of why am I buying PtW . Yes, MP is there, but I have never played too much MP, and SP still is the heart of civ gaming to me... though I will certainly join a few games.

Scenarios? Rarely played those in previous civ games, generally, I just don't care... well, except for WW 2 scenario, maybe. That's, BTW, my definition of the "whole editing capabilities" is right that - the ability to create a WW 2 scenario.

	24-09-2002 21:08									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Traelin I just can't help but get pissed off that I automatically declare war on any Civ that uses nukes (unless I have an MPP with them).

this is actually a bug and will be fixed in PtW...

	24-09-2002 21:32									#38
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Well all of the modders are pissed about the 'new' editor.
The best stuff wont be in it. Still the PTW expansion is good, I will buy it, even that I cant be bothered by Civ3 multiplayer. I play other games if I want multiplay.

I love the scenarios unlike some of you. Its lot better than a normal game. You can specialize eras, units, all stuff, and thats wonderful!

	24-09-2002 21:36									#39
	Put an end to popups!

I'm a modder and I, for one, am not pissed. There are a lot of nice features in the new editor, not least of which is the resource paths.

Two features that you deem needed won't be in it when it ships. A lot more will.

Since Soren was just here, that at least proves that they are aware of your opinions.

	24-09-2002 22:18									#40
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Soren Johnson Firaxis this is actually a bug and will be fixed in PtW...

So is there any chance for post PtW Civ3 patch to fix same bug, or we all need to buy PtW in order to get bug fixed?

	24-09-2002 22:41									#41
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I heard that there will be no more Civ3 patches

	24-09-2002 22:57									#42
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

it's good business sense to force you to buy PTW :-D

firaxis, you win.

Attachment: untitled.gif
This has been downloaded 311 time(s).

	25-09-2002 00:04									#43
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Soren Johnson Firaxis this is actually a bug and will be fixed in PtW...

Thx for the info Soren! Little tidbits like that make me happy that I'm going to buy PTW, and will likely cause me to buy it sooner!

	25-09-2002 00:39									#44
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by WarpStorm I heard that there will be no more Civ3 patches

So we need to buy PtW for bug fix?

I realy hope not.

Still, it won't realy matter for me since i'll but PtW anyway.

But some other people will complain.

	25-09-2002 00:44									#45
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

WarpStorm, you mentioned resource path - what exactly does that mean? What else is going to be added to the editor in PTW? (I missed out on the chat and there's still no chat log in sight )

	25-09-2002 00:52									#46
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I really have no idea why people are so eager to buy (and preorder) PtW. To me, it just doesn't seem like it adds enough. Sure, there are more civs (which can be downloaded free off the net) and then there are new improvements (airbases, etc) and a few bug fixes.....

For me personally (meaning I'm speaking about myself. I'm not pretending to speak for you.) PtW just doesnt have enough. I'm not going to spend 30 bucks for a few extra civs, some improvements, a bug fix, and multiplayer. I want more things to do! Are there any plans to improve the UN? A new victory, perhaps? Of course just one of these things alone wouldnt do it, but....I'd like to be able to change HOW I play Civ3, not just who I play it with.

I'm probably not going to buy The Sims Online because, well, multiplayer for 50.00 (here in Utah all the sims expansions are 50, while the isms is 60). If they include other things then I might, but from what i know now I'm not going to.

And still, yes some of the things in PtW look appealing....so I can understand people who buy it. But because of the negatives as well, I dont understand people who are preordering it! Let us at least wait for the reviews. I kick myself in my backside because I did not listen to the reviews when I made my first purchase in this series, and Im personally not going to do it again. Yes, all the previews are saying its a great expansion pack....but they attribute the greatness to multiplayer Therefore, I personally would wait for reviews before buying (or possibly not buying) PtW. No offense, but preordering it just seems dumb to me.

	25-09-2002 01:39									#47
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Right now if you have multiple mods on your system you need to keep multiple copies of the various resource files (art, units, terrain, text files, etc.). Mike said he implemented a path scheme where you tell your mod the order of directories to search for files in. This means that you can build mods and share resources without messing up a previous mod or the original files and without having to copy files around.

Last edited by WarpStorm on 25-09-2002 at 01:46

	25-09-2002 01:45									#48
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Spending $30 dollars on a preorder is a very small risk for a few extra days of game playing. If it sucks (I doubt it, but you never know), I'm out about the cost of one meal or a fill up of gas. In any case, less than taking the wife and kids out to a kiddy movie that's guaranteed to suck. It's No Big Deal. If it's great, I played it earlier.

	25-09-2002 01:49									#49
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by WarpStorm Spending $30 dollars on a preorder is a very small risk for a few extra days of game playing. If it sucks (I doubt it, but you never know), I'm out about the cost of one meal or a fill up of gas. In any case, less than taking the wife and kids out to a kiddy movie that's guaranteed to suck. It's No Big Deal. If it's great, I played it earlier.

But for some, 30 dollars isn't just something you can just throw out in the wind. If I could just spare 30 dollars iwth no big reprocussions, then I'd own many more things.

(Btw, it costs you $30.00 to go out to a kiddie movie!? It only costs 3 here. Meal = 10. Gas.....well....)

	25-09-2002 02:03									#50
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

$6 for each kid + $7 for each adult + $4 for each popcorn (ouch) + $3 for each drink (ouch)

It costs even more to get a baby sitter and take the wife out to a good movie.

	25-09-2002 02:06									#51
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by WarpStorm $6 for each kid + $7 for each adult + $4 for each popcorn (ouch) + $3 for each drink (ouch) It costs even more to get a baby sitter and take the wife out to a good movie.

Thats quite expensive.

3 dollars for entire family (we get discounts, otehrwise it would be 4 for kid, 5 for adult.) popcorn is only 2 here and drinks aren't anywher enear three dollars.

Come to Utah next time you plan on watching a kiddie movie

	25-09-2002 02:15									#52
	Full PM-box? Change here!

If it weren't for the airfare, I could save a few bucks.

	25-09-2002 11:58									#53
	Suffering from ads?

One thinkg that strikes me is that Zulu being an avid Civ3 player and a suppoerts of Firaxis has turned along with some others! It's true that scenario building is important to some people same as MP but to me thery aren't. I've played Civ2 for years and although I bought the FW CD I never really played it. The civil War and WWII scenarios were the only ones I tried but I never really played.

Sure lots of people will be dissapointed out there but remember Civ2 evolved with time and the support that Firaxis has given us up to now is excellent.

I will buy the game asap when it comes out because of the improvements on SP and I am pretty sure that I'd be satisfied. It's your choice as a consumer.


So long...

	25-09-2002 20:44									#54
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Tassadar5000 I really have no idea why people are so eager to buy (and preorder) PtW. To me, it just doesn't seem like it adds enough. Sure, there are more civs (which can be downloaded free off the net) and then there are new improvements (airbases, etc) and a few bug fixes.....

Tassadar, I have to admit I'm a simple man with simple pleasures. All it takes for me to be happy with PTW and any other future XPs is that diplomacy is modded (heavily) and REALLY REALLY annoying bugs are fixed (like the one I had previously mentioned about suddenly declaring war). Well I'm not getting my diplomacy mods, but at least some bugs will be fixed.

I completely understand your point about being wary of buying a product before reviews come in, but -- for me -- I've never been disappointed with a Sid Meier product and have faith that PTW will make me happy. They've done a good job in supporting Civ3 so far, so I can't really expect them to keep coming out with patches. Therefore, I'm more than happy to pick up the XP and continue supporting the Civ franchise!

	25-09-2002 21:59									#55
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Traelin ... but -- for me -- I've never been disappointed with a Sid Meier product and have faith that PTW will make me happy. They've done a good job in supporting Civ3 so far, so I can't really expect them to keep coming out with patches. Therefore, I'm more than happy to pick up the XP and continue supporting the Civ franchise!

Exactly my thoughts.

	25-09-2002 22:08									#56
	Inflate your Upload Space

Can someone tell me the risk in buying on release?

I basically want the new civs. Probably won't play much mp, so no issues there.

I would think that the major bugs (if you could call the bugs on release major, which I would not) have been worked out by now and that the scope of the expansion is fairly limited, especially in SP.

So some question why people are eager to buy it, the day of release. I ask, why wait?


As an aside, while I realize that I could download new civs, I prefer to get them from firaxis. I like official things, want to avoid heavy modding etc. Plus, while the online ones are great, I'm sure, they aren't at the professional level that firaxis can produce. Plus its easier to discuss standard civs on the board.

	26-09-2002 04:47									#57
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel As an aside, while I realize that I could download new civs, I prefer to get them from firaxis. I like official things, want to avoid heavy modding etc. Plus, while the online ones are great, I'm sure, they aren't at the professional level that firaxis can produce. Plus its easier to discuss standard civs on the board.

On this I must dissent (SMAC quoting, anyone? ).
Official release have some advantage about patch compatibility, because usually they can better check to avoid future trouble with source code.

OTOH, on a quality point I saw some excellent stuff in download area of Apolyton or some others fan community. Trouble with heavily modded game are that you have more difficult to share experience on a strategy forum: different units, different stats, different terrain, different tech... The only hassle free change I know is some different graphic: some terrain set look very well.

It seems as the old debate about the quality of a freeware software vs. a commerciallylicensed one. And no, thanks, I'm not starting another thread about it.

	26-09-2002 04:54									#58
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Adm.Naismith On this I must dissent (SMAC quoting, anyone? ). Official release have some advantage about patch compatibility, because usually they can better check to avoid future trouble with source code. OTOH, on a quality point I saw some excellent stuff in download area of Apolyton or some others fan community. Trouble with heavily modded game are that you have more difficult to share experience on a strategy forum: different units, different stats, different terrain, different tech... The only hassle free change I know is some different graphic: some terrain set look very well. It seems as the old debate about the quality of a freeware software vs. a commerciallylicensed one. And no, thanks, I'm not starting another thread about it.

Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize how insulting my statement was.

I for one am using Sn00py's graphic set, which I think is better than what came with the game. And other graphics and units look awesome. Its really the leader heads and continuity with the rest of the leaders that I'm looking for. My bad about the previous statement. God knows I couldn't do many of the units and other things people have done to the game.

	26-09-2002 10:33									#59
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: ... but -- for me -- I've never been disappointed with a Sid Meier product and have faith that PTW will make me happy. They've done a good job in supporting Civ3 so far, so I can't really expect them to keep coming out with patches. Therefore, I'm more than happy to pick up the XP and continue supporting the Civ franchise!

Hey even sid mier and firaxis are human. (well firaxis isnt human. its a corporation run by bunch of human but ya kno wat i mean) We should expect flaws here and there.

We can't expect perfection with ptW, but we can safely guess that it's goin to make us happy with all the promised features.

	26-09-2002 11:39									#60
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I for one am definitely looking forward to PtW. And I'm sure that no matter how many options they give us for "scenarios", there's going to be some people that will figure out how to make some pretty entertaining ones.