24-09-2002 20:54									#61
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"First Stoiber did not play the xenophobia card."

As it was followed over here, he did. About 10 days from election. But I guess this is really beside the point of the discussion.

"Second"

Blah, blah, blah.

"Third, not every criticism of the Bush admin is anti-american."

Not every criticism, no. But the way the criticisms were delivered was perceived as anti-American. The Hitler comparison was perceived as only the tip of the iceburg. Others appear to view it this way too. Consider FT's opening...

"A handshake may not exactly be the gesture to quickly improve relations. But at least it may be the start of a slow thaw in the cold chill between the US and Germany caused by anti-American rhetoric in Germany's election campaign"

In light of this, it is perceived as something worthy of the silent treatment for a while.

	25-09-2002 00:51									#62
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Here's a gem...

" The resignation of another top politician who had made disparaging remarks about Bush was also announced. Ludwig Stiegler, head of Schroeder's Social Democrat party in the Parliament, stepped down from that post but will remain in the legislature. A German newspaper reported that he had said in an interview that "Bush is acting as if he's Caesar Augustus and Germany is the province of Germania," referring to the powerful Roman emperor who ruled from 27 B.C. to 14 A.D."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...-2002Sep23.html

How to Win Friends and Influence People, by the SPD.

	25-09-2002 02:08									#63
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quote: Originally posted by DanS How to Win Friends and Influence People, by the SPD.

A bestseller, I'm sure.

	25-09-2002 02:40									#64
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They won, didn;t they?

	25-09-2002 11:40									#65
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In a way I am satisfied with the results since I am sure that the SPD and the Greens (who by the way should go to some forest to live) will do such a bad job (likely worst than the previous 4 years) that by the next election CDU/CSU will have a clear majority in Parliament and will be able to take matters in their own hands. That's if they wont run out of ministers before that. I've have found that Germans are in general not very fond of the CSU and the Bavarians where as they should actually take that State as an example to bring this stagnationg country forward. There were of course a lot of reasons why the election result came to this but I believe one of the most important is that Stoiber actually "threatened" our 2+ million chronically unemployed with work, they of course turned to the Greens that despite some valid political views have no such views for the unemployed. Also, Stoiber views on immigration is the more realistic one but everybody misinterprented him as being against it, which is totally wrong. No politician can do anything to stop immigration and they know that. More important factor is integration of the immigrants.


I was very upset on Sunday night but now I am more confident than ever that the new coalition if it wil last to the end it will be its last time. Naturally some think that this is wishfull thinking, I guess the future will prove who is right or wrong.

Oh, the one argument I hated the most was that SChroeder was very sympathetic unlike Stoiber. That's sick, very sick. Imagine how many politicians or Presidents would have made it in the 19th century if that would be a deciding factor. The first name that comes to mind is President Lincoln and his akwardness!!! It's only another sign of our times of how shallow people are.


So long...

PS: By the way the results were very different between East and West. In the West the CDU/CSU were clearly the winners while in the East with their socialist past and high unemployement rates the SPD was the winner.

	25-09-2002 12:53									#66
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"As it was followed over here, he did. About 10 days from election."

Just another prime example of the crappiness of your media.

"Blah, blah, blah."

Yeah, and we don't care about that blah. Why would you ?

"But the way the criticisms were delivered was perceived as anti-American."

Then get less touchy. The Bushies are extremely confrontational themselves, but they can't take what they dish out. Also the Schröder "irritations" are nothing to what will come about with the next generation of politicians.

"In light of this, it is perceived as something worthy of the silent treatment for a while."

Well I would appreciate hearing nothing from the Bushies for a while.

About the Augustus comparison - Bush may be an Octavian, but he'll never become an Augustus.

	25-09-2002 12:56									#67
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quote: Originally posted by The Pioneer I've have found that Germans are in general not very fond of the CSU and the Bavarians where as they should actually take that State as an example to bring this stagnationg country forward.

Wouldn't work. Germany pays a huge price for reunification, and who ever is in power has to sit this out for the next maybe 10 years. The only option would be to cut wages in the east, and no party would survive this politically there.

	26-09-2002 19:58									#68
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Roland, I just read in a newspaper that the discussions about Iraq now start in the USA. Relax, sit back, and watch.

	26-09-2002 20:09									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Adalbertus Roland, I just read in a newspaper that the discussions about Iraq now start in the USA. Relax, sit back, and watch.

Yes, we shall see. This might be a fun one, although it probably won't be. The numbers are solidly for a strong resolution in the Senate, where the widest debate rules govern, so it might just be an exercise in demonstrating who has the strongest language against Hussein.

I don't think it was a good idea to begin the debate by a Gore speech , because it was a muddled mess, but I guess it will do in a pinch.

	27-09-2002 14:45									#70
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Well I guess the Bushies can now make nice with Schroeder again, as they now have Daschle & co to keep their blood pressure at 200+.

	27-09-2002 19:31									#71
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Daschle & Co. will not raise Bush's blood pressure very high. The Senate dems are split among themselves on an appropriate stance.

There is some talk that an alternative bill will be brought up, to give the peaceniks some cover. Even Wellstone might be able to support war.