25-09-2002 18:27									#61
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I see some dis-information is here again, I saw Rumsfeld's press conference from Poland, he didn't refuse to meet the German minister at all, and he denied there was any snubbing, but I see you all took that as gospil that there was snubbing,typical.

The US wants allies that support action, not snub their nose at things, Herr Schroeder has said he will not support ANY action against Iraq, resolution or not.

Fair wheather freinds we can do without, but Paiktis is right, the Germans have been trying to make amends, now that the election is over.

What a lovely gov, at least Bush actually believes what he says, right or wrong, in Deutshland it's tell the rubes what they want to hear and get elected.

	25-09-2002 19:53									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Chris 62 I see some dis-information is here again, I saw Rumsfeld's press conference from Poland, he didn't refuse to meet the German minister at all, and he denied there was any snubbing, but I see you all took that as gospil that there was snubbing,typical.

So is he going to talk with the German Defence Minister?

	25-09-2002 20:07									#63
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"I see some dis-information is here again"

Hello AnnC.

"he didn't refuse to meet the German minister at all, and he denied there was any snubbing"

He couldn't avoid "meeting" him as being in the same room, but apparantly he did not talk to him.

"What a lovely gov, at least Bush actually believes what he says, right or wrong, in Deutshland it's tell the rubes what they want to hear and get elected."

I'm quite certain Schröder actually believes that this war is a stupid idea.

	25-09-2002 20:35									#64
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The spat is just a demonstration that there is a high price for slagging the US. Not confronting Schroeder over this would invite others to do the same that he has, since slagging the US at home would be perceived as having no cost.

	25-09-2002 20:38									#65
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It is a demonstration that the Bushies seek to NLP dissent and play little games.

Anyway, there is no cost.

	25-09-2002 20:42									#66
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Perhaps a negative relationship with the US represents no cost. But I think it is at least perceived as having a cost.

	25-09-2002 20:45									#67
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Sorry Roland, your northern friends fouled up, and can't even stay consistant.
Germany deserves that guy, what a leader he is.

SD: He said that no meetings were cancelled or made, but that they followed a long, fixed agenda.
The press Corp, especially several German reporters repeatedly tried to get him to say Bush and/or him were snubbing Germany, he actually laughed in one of their faces, and grew annoyed when asked that by three different reporters.

	25-09-2002 20:54									#68
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Schröder is an idiot. Never had much esteem for him.

As for Rumsie:

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/int...TO-Defense.html

quote: ``I did not intentionally snub anybody, that is not my way,'' Rumsfeld said.

So it was all accidental, hmm ?

quote: Rumsfeld said scheduling problems prevented him from having a bilateral meeting with his German counterpart, Peter Struck, and attending a Monday night ministerial dinner where Struck spoke.

That's even lamer than Däubler-Gmelin's convoluted dementi.

As far as I'm concerned the Bushies can play insulted sausage until they are done.

	25-09-2002 20:56									#69
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Chris, I'm confused as to why Rumsfeld said what he did in such a manner?

Surely "No meetings with the Defence Minister have been planned", was a better response than "I have no intention of meeting with the Defence Minister".

I read more into the tone than into the content, it sounded like he had been approached and had refused. Oh well, I thought a politician would have given more thought to his words given the recent debacle.

	25-09-2002 20:58									#70
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he's got to make the german economy going again.

as for more flexibility in the job market. yes but at what cost.

he really didnt do that great... what with all that rising unemployment

	25-09-2002 21:00									#71
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which was why he played the antiwar card. keep the mind of the people away from the real problems.

politcal atavismos.

	25-09-2002 21:06									#72
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stoiber was at least decent enough to say that foreign relations should not become part of an electoral campaign.
responsible stance but he just couldnt get his message across. which says something about german antiwar feelings.

	25-09-2002 21:43									#73
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Bush has yet to congratulate Schroeder on the elections. Paikti for your last comment on Stoiber but hey Germans deserve Schroeder he will enjoy taking this country down with him and we will wake up after getting screwed for another 4 years.

So long...

	25-09-2002 22:03									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin Chris, I'm confused as to why Rumsfeld said what he did in such a manner?

He seemed to be trying not to say something, rather then a direct answer.

quote: Surely "No meetings with the Defence Minister have been planned", was a better response than "I have no intention of meeting with the Defence Minister".

I can also say he was rather relaxed, almost casual in his reponces, he did go on at length that his schedual was from 8 in the morning till 10 at night, and no "ad hoc" meetings could be worked in.
Whether this is true or not remains to be seen.

quote: I read more into the tone than into the content, it sounded like he had been approached and had refused. Oh well, I thought a politician would have given more thought to his words given the recent debacle.

He went on at length that Bush and Co don't see anything negative in the Nato allies, including Germany, but you get the feeling the Germans and the Bush whitehouse won't be getting together anytime soon.

	25-09-2002 23:46									#75
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quote: Originally posted by The Pioneer hey Germans deserve Schroeder he will enjoy taking this country down with him and we will wake up after getting screwed for another 4 years.

They'll keep electing him as long as he manages to distract them from looking to hard at his faliures (economy,etc.).

	26-09-2002 01:30									#76
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Dino I do not think that this will last longer than the next 4 years at the end of which Germany will be ruined.

So long...

	26-09-2002 01:46									#77
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Ruined? Wow.

Buck up, little camper. A couple of bad years won't ruin a country. It takes decades normally.

	26-09-2002 02:29									#78
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Well you are right but the problem is not only Schroeder but also the greenies that actually make it worse. There has never been a green party with such strong influence in a coalition in Europe AFAIK. As for the four years you mentioned I think you should add the previous 4 and that would make it 8, that's plenty of time to ruin lots of things. As an example the deficit for health care has gone from 1,5 billion to almost 2,5 in two years and it's estimated to be around 3,5 within another year and they do not seem to get the right grip on issues like that. The list goes on indefinite, oh just anotehr example he dispensed 9 ministers up to now that's gotta be a record soon his pool will run dry.

So long...

	26-09-2002 02:52									#79
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Good allies, allies, bad allies, enemies, neutral.. whatever.. but in nuclear days, the real enemy is war itself.

By that I didn't mean Saddam shouldn't be taken care of. It sounds cool .

	27-09-2002 14:40									#80
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"Well you are right but the problem is not only Schroeder but also the greenies that actually make it worse."

The realos that shape the green's econ policies are a lot more reform minded than the SPD, if only for the reason that they have about no ties to the Unions.