23-09-2002 20:59									#1
	And now witness how Germany will say "yes" to war on iraq Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

in a few time, schroeder will say:
the US explained us things and now we will take part since everything is OK.

now that he has won the elections...

wanna bet?

	23-09-2002 21:09									#2
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and may I say that the short lived turn to right wing governments has been upturned now (Sweden, GermanY)

	23-09-2002 21:10									#3
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No

	23-09-2002 21:10									#4
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quote: and may I say that the short lived turn to right wing governments has been upturned now (Sweden, GermanY)

Not necessarily. It was a definite possibility in Sweden and within hair's breadth of success in Germany. The tide hasn't begun to ebb yet.

...then again, it doesn't have many more lefty governments to go...

	23-09-2002 21:13									#5
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ah, we'd love the krauts to come help us a bit

we still have some "cave-flushing" positions availible.

	23-09-2002 21:14									#6
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right wingers are good for one term. they screw things so badly they thenhave to wait another 20 yeats to go to power.

which is good.

	23-09-2002 21:40									#7
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He'd risk losing the support of the Greens ?

	23-09-2002 21:46									#8
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paiktis22

from where do you get the idea that "right wingers" are inherently evil and that "left wingers" are inherently good.

	23-09-2002 21:47									#9
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not "evil" just incompetent and societally analgetic

	23-09-2002 21:54									#10
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quote: right wingers are good for one term. they screw things so badly they thenhave to wait another 20 yeats to go to power.

*cough* Looks at the US, where right wingers ruled for 12 years.

*cough* Looks at the UK where right wingers ruled for 14 years.

*cough* Looks at Germany where right wingers ruled for 20+ years.

Maybe it is the left that is the imcompetant ones .

	23-09-2002 21:56									#11
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thacher? ask the brits what they think about her.

Kol? he got boosted by the reunification issue.

	23-09-2002 21:59									#12
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about the US, they are all right wingers.

	23-09-2002 22:05									#13
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Thatcher and Kohl were both in office as long as any left wing leader.

And it doesn't matter that Kohl got boosted by reunification, since he'd been pushing it for years (with the left opposed) that was his victory to win under.

Also Chirac is the President in France, Putin is leading Russia (and will for the foreseeable future).

And Blair is basically just Thatcher with a kinder face. Schreoder is Kohl with a nicer face (and younger attitute), and the only reason he is in is because of the scandels..

Left wingers had to basically become rightwingers to win at all.

	23-09-2002 22:07									#14
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chirac?

was there a choice, really

	23-09-2002 22:12									#15
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No, because all the left wingers sucked .

Would you vote for Jospin?

	23-09-2002 22:15									#16
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would you vote for lepen?

	23-09-2002 23:37									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui [q]*cough* Looks at the UK where right wingers ruled for 14 years.

Tories were in power from '79 to '97. Thats 18 years.

Add on the current labour government (a.k.a Tory Plan B) and the right has been in power for 23 years.

	23-09-2002 23:43									#18
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Sagacious Dolphin. Not afraid to be burlesque at times

	23-09-2002 23:46									#19
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quote: Maybe it is the left that is the imcompetant ones.

Esp. considering that, if I remember correctly, before Tonester no Labour PM had served two consecutive terms. And Tone hasn't been much of a leftist by any stretch...

	24-09-2002 00:17									#20
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No way. His majority is too slim. If he did, the Greens would probably bolt, and his new government would have the lifespan of an Italian parliament.

	24-09-2002 00:21									#21
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Why Paiktis, are you saying the German government is being muniplative and dishonest?

	24-09-2002 00:25									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Chris 62 Why Paiktis, are you saying the German government is being muniplative and dishonest?

These elections appeared modelled on the US system, so why not the government?

	24-09-2002 00:34									#23
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US doesn't need to hate some other country to have an election, it's to busy hating each other's party.

How quickly deutchland forgets it's friends, the frogs and limeys were against unifacation, but the US favored...

Ah, they become more third world like every day.

	24-09-2002 02:19									#24
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quote: No way. His majority is too slim. If he did, the Greens would probably bolt, and his new government would have the lifespan of an Italian parliament.

Why would the Greens bolt? Right now they have influence on German policy, even if Schroeder chooses to ignore them on the Iraq issue. Some influence is better than no influence, which is what the Greens would have if they broke the coalition with the SPD and allowed the CDU-FDP coalition into power. The Greens will do what Schroeder tells them to...

	24-09-2002 02:58									#25
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 about the US, they are all right wingers.

I think you're further right than most Americans, Mr. Greek Nationalist. You're anti American with Nationalist and Socialist views. What does that make you...

	24-09-2002 03:07									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov No way. His majority is too slim. If he did, the Greens would probably bolt, and his new government would have the lifespan of an Italian parliament.

Stoiber can only hope you are correct.

	24-09-2002 03:37									#27
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Drake, don't forget the Left is often willing to sacrifice itself for its principles in the short term if, in the long term, it improves their prospects.

	24-09-2002 04:23									#28
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quote: Drake, don't forget the Left is often willing to sacrifice itself for its principles in the short term if, in the long term, it improves their prospects.

Abandoning the coalition wouldn't improve the Greens prospects in the long term. The SPD is the only compatible coalition partner for the Greens and it would be idiotic to destroy relations by challenging Schroeder on Iraq. Not only would they lose all influence over German policy in the short term, but they would also gain the emnity of the SPD, severely reducing the Greens chances of ever being in a majority coalition again. Destroying the coalition over Iraq is a lose-lose situation for the Greens.

	24-09-2002 05:17									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: Drake, don't forget the Left is often willing to sacrifice itself for its principles in the short term if, in the long term, it improves their prospects. Abandoning the coalition wouldn't improve the Greens prospects in the long term. The SPD is the only compatible coalition partner for the Greens and it would be idiotic to destroy relations by challenging Schroeder on Iraq. Not only would they lose all influence over German policy in the short term, but they would also gain the emnity of the SPD, severely reducing the Greens chances of ever being in a majority coalition again. Destroying the coalition over Iraq is a lose-lose situation for the Greens.

I categorically disagree. If Schroeder does an about-face on this, the anti-war German people will be infuriated with the SDP. The Greens can then use the memory of the incident to gain ground with left-leaning voters who oppose the war. They would be able to pick up seats (most at the expense of the SDP, I'm sure), and put them in a more powerful position. And guess what? The SDP would still have to work with them, especially then, to form a majority government.

	24-09-2002 09:18									#30
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quote: would you vote for lepen?

No, I'd vote for Chirac. Wasn't my fault that Jospin didn't even get enough votes to get into the runoff . Shows that the left is hurting even in France.

SD: Sorry, For some reason I thought the Tory reign ended earlier. But yes, another right win government, just by another name rules that country .

quote: The SDP would still have to work with them, especially then, to form a majority government.

Who says? They could offer the FDP to join the coalition as there has been SPD-FDP coalitions in the past. And of course there is the idea of a Grand Coalition between CDU-SPD, somewhat like what was in Austria before Haider gained enough votes that the Peoples' Party didn't need the Social Democrats for majority.