07-10-2002 08:26									#31
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you can get innocalated to that before you go

Jon Miller

	07-10-2002 08:36									#32
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have you ever read Forstchen's books about the lost legion?

While many people have issues with Forstchens fantasy elements, particularly his first book reads like a crash course in 'how to industrialize a peasant society in less than a year'.

He also has some really good points about how the lack of metallurgy limits everything else, and so any improvements have to be piecemeal... Sort of how you make yorself a sword from nothing but steel: You first make a really crude hammer and a crude anvil. With the hammer you make a new hammer. With the new hammer you make a new anvil. With the new anvil and the new hammer you make yet another a hammer. Eventually you can make your sword, probably with the steel used for your first three hammers...

	07-10-2002 09:08									#33
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quote: Originally posted by CyberGnu have you ever read Forstchen's books about the lost legion? While many people have issues with Forstchens fantasy elements, particularly his first book reads like a crash course in 'how to industrialize a peasant society in less than a year'. He also has some really good points about how the lack of metallurgy limits everything else, and so any improvements have to be piecemeal... Sort of how you make yorself a sword from nothing but steel: You first make a really crude hammer and a crude anvil. With the hammer you make a new hammer. With the new hammer you make a new anvil. With the new anvil and the new hammer you make yet another a hammer. Eventually you can make your sword, probably with the steel used for your first three hammers...

I haven't...
So there's a book about this? I once figured that my personal hell (I have thought of many of them ) would be forced to build a personal computer from out of just resources. With infinite time and the fact that I get somekind of reward if I actually do build it. Anyway, I figured then that my progress all the way to the modern manufactoring plants that will produce the parts would take "some" time , if it's even possible (alone I only have my own musclepower).
So anyone who wants to take blueprits to 1400 AD: Take blueprints of very old tech too
Btw... Are there inventions from 1400 AD to present day that could be "skipped" to achieve all that we have now?

This is of course way off topic

	07-10-2002 09:09									#34
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The Wild West...my name would be Clint Eastwood...hell ya


Or even cooler. I'de go to Medevil Europe back in time with a Helicopter and roll into a castle and proclaim myself GOD. All who opposed where napalmed

	07-10-2002 09:18									#35
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quote: Originally posted by faded glory The Wild West...my name would be Clint Eastwood...hell ya Or even cooler. I'de go to Medevil Europe back in time with a Helicopter and roll into a castle and proclaim myself GOD. All who opposed where napalmed

If you can easilly carry that in two hands, you are already almost a god
Nah, don't let silly rules come in the way of good ideas! But now I have to take a bazooka too so I don't have to worship you.

	07-10-2002 09:21									#36
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I would take a suitcase nuke and nuke the most advanced city of the age

people's history would be screwed up for a long time

Jon Miller

	07-10-2002 09:33									#37
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Nuke Baghdad?? You dont need to go back anywhere. Just wait a couple more weeks....


(yes in 1400 Bagdad was considered the most advanced city in the world)

	07-10-2002 09:40									#38
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The notebook computer with a solar power generator is a good idea. Fill all the knowledge I need on CD-R's. Another thing I need is medicine. Food and water weren't that clean back then.

Then I can just become a real emperor myself back then, conqueror the world with advanced technology, and change world history.

	07-10-2002 10:10									#39
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One man cannot control any nation without help from a handful or two of trusted helpers.

Those helpers you can get back in time, they will surely use more time to plot your death than to help you - at least when they are finished being afraid of you.

	07-10-2002 10:33									#40
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You know, all you laptop warrior are gonna feel like pretty big idiots when you get there and can't hold your machine guns properly because you have giant bubous under your arms!

It's the end of the 14th century, people; the black death is still kicking around, and that's just one of the many diseases that would kill you quicker than any of the Rambowannabe toys you're dreaming of. And yet, except for jimmytrick's viagra, nobody's bringing drugs.

You wanna be king of your medieval world? You fill that backpack with: (1) medicine, especially penicillin (2) a good book on how to make more medicine, especially penicillin (3) gold (4) a good book on how to construct sewer systems and their accoutrements, like running water and flush toilets.

	07-10-2002 11:19									#41
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You'd be better off bringin black pepper, actually... Worth more than its weight in gold.

Purple dye would work too. In the medieval world, the only way to get the color purple was to extract it from a mollusk that lives in the mediterranean. Only kings could afford to have clothes dyed with it, hence the royal association.

Tiny, the books are fantasy books, about a company of Yankee soliders who gets displaced trough a portal and end up on a medieval world, where humans are used as cattle by a race of aliens suspicially like orcs.

For me the main enjoyment of the book was the description of the jump start of civilization. There is also an interesting implication: the time period Forschten picked is the civil war. Right when war got industrialized, but ealry enough that the soliders had a good chance of having the skills necessary to build their own weapons etc. A modern marine unit, for example, would naturally have vastly superior firepower, but would most likely not be able to produce more bullets even... As the cartridges require fairly high quality brass, the gun powder differs quite a lot from the black powder most people are used to etc etc.

For a scenario where a marine unit IS stranded on a medieval world, there is the Jannisaries series by Pournelle. They are out of print, though, so you would have to go through some effort to get them... Don't really know how accurate they are, either. Forshten has a PhD in history, so I'm assuming that he knows what he is talking about...

	07-10-2002 11:25									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly And yet, except for jimmytrick's viagra, nobody's bringing drugs.

Are you sure?

	07-10-2002 13:07									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Are you sure?

Damn! I always do that: read carefully until the last couple of posts, then miss something. You beat me to it; well done.

	07-10-2002 13:27									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly Damn! I always do that: read carefully until the last couple of posts, then miss something. You beat me to it; well done.

That's the difference between us world travellers and armchair types. We always bring some medicine with us whenever we travel to another place, just in case.

That'd be doubly so when we travel back in time.

	07-10-2002 14:09									#45
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I would invade the holy land from the infidels, ending the jewish diaspora and build the third temple as Messiah.

	07-10-2002 14:16									#46
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I would dress in some bullet proof west, and start a college until some jellaous landlord tries to kill me, (that is if no weapons are allowed to take with me) .

The college would be free, and I would try and build a state around it, probably the location of choice would be San Marino or Liethenstein, or I'd try to find some relativley peacefull place where most of the locals would let me do what I want. And if I'd be allowed to take a laptop with me... huuuuu...

	07-10-2002 14:17									#47
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A tank and supplies for it. I could take over in the space of a few weeks

	07-10-2002 14:43									#48
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I will write a religious book. In this book, people could read that the next Messiah would be Zobo Ze Ultimate Warrior, and that all girl (<30 y) doing love with him will gain the eternal life.

Changing pasts events is always paradoxal.

	07-10-2002 14:46									#49
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quote: Originally posted by TheStinger A tank and supplies for it. I could take over in the space of a few weeks

Take over what? You're one guy in a tank. You can only be in one place at a time, and it's going to have to be a pretty small place at that. Sure, you could gather followers, but how long is it going to be before some big bruiser with a sword thinks, "Without his tank, that pasty-faced 20th-century geek would be nothing and I would be king...and he's got to sleep sometime..."

	07-10-2002 14:54									#50
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Well europe for a start maybe Paris and then onwards.

Have you any idea what effect a tank would have on people who think a water wheel is the height of industrial sophistication.

I'd be a God. and if any bruiser wanted to try it on with his sword then bring him on

	07-10-2002 15:10									#51
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As many antibiotics as I could carry and spices.

	07-10-2002 15:34									#52
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quote: Originally posted by TheStinger Well europe for a start maybe Paris and then onwards. Have you any idea what effect a tank would have on people who think a water wheel is the height of industrial sophistication. I'd be a God. and if any bruiser wanted to try it on with his sword then bring him on

Why am I having sudden flashes of the soldier in Apocalypse Now who is killed with a spear, and whose last words -- as he looks down, incredulous that that such a primitive technology could have felled a soldier of the most technologically-advanced nation on earth -- are simply, "a SPEAR?!"

	07-10-2002 15:38									#53
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i'll keep my flack jacket on.

I'll take an apc with me and do it out all nice so i can sleep comfortabley.

	07-10-2002 16:04									#54
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Takeovers, hmm ?

I can see two options, and roaming around in a tank isn't really one.

You either convince some leader that you can conquer a shitload of land for him. Although be careful; France's Charles VI may not be the best idea, for example... anyway, either go with the reward, or if you're adventurous, take over...

Or you use the instability in Italy and make your own company as a condottiere, and carve out your own fiefdom.

An interesting question is how long it would take with all current knowledge to bring your little land up to modern status. It's not only the know-how, but the training of peopel and the infrastructure to build mostly from scratch... ugh.

	07-10-2002 16:06									#55
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In my tank i roll up to the doors of the king/queen/ emperos palace, demand they swear an oath of loyalty, when they refuse i let loose a few HE rounds Bingo I'm in charge.

	07-10-2002 16:42									#56
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I think the Americas would offer more possibility. The Conquistadors were viewed as Gods for a while. By acting a little nicer they could have had it pretty good (though I wouldn't find Aztec life appealing myself). It also seems like a much more healthy area in general.

I'd choose the San Deigo area... Not much world domination potential, but perfect weather, nice beaches, sparsly populated, and the Kumeyaay sound like decent people.

	07-10-2002 16:54									#57
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quote: Originally posted by TheStinger In my tank i roll up to the doors of the king/queen/ emperos palace, demand they swear an oath of loyalty, when they refuse i let loose a few HE rounds Bingo I'm in charge.

#

LOL

Rather efficient idea... however if they decide to run, you would have to bring with you an oil rafinery for support.

In that case I think that a helicopter would have more of and effect for a claim to be GOD than a tank.

	07-10-2002 16:58									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson I think the Americas would offer more possibility. The Conquistadors were viewed as Gods for a while. By acting a little nicer they could have had it pretty good (though I wouldn't find Aztec life appealing myself). It also seems like a much more healthy area in general.

They could have acted like the messengers of Quetzalcoalt, "Le serpent à plumes", their first god . A "good" one, who liked humans (maybe he created them) and refused blood sacrifice but if it was bird or snake.

	07-10-2002 17:01									#59
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quote: Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave # LOL Rather efficient idea... however if they decide to run, you would have to bring with you an oil rafinery for support. In that case I think that a helicopter would have more of and effect for a claim to be GOD than a tank.

Yeah that is a problem, i intend to define the term supplies as loosely as possible.

So in effect i am taking a tank and and entire logistic support unit.

	07-10-2002 17:04									#60
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When we are talking support than it would be the best to take a Battleship on nuclear power with the crew. Well than... you could rule that is for sure as long as you are there, not just Europe but everywhere and there is no need for a laptop either you have all you need on board....