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MRT144
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Seattle Washington
Oct 2002
time: 21:22
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since i live at the northern tip of silicon valley, i will agree, it is pretty barren of any culture. in fact i hate most of silicon valley except for downtown palo alto and menlo park. Mostly because every commercial center in SV is a strip mall and is no different from any other strip mall.
as for san francisco, its one of the most culturally diverse yet culturally unified places on the planet...
as for you ned, if you ever get a package via UPS ive probably touched it.
Last edited by MRT144 on 15-10-2002 at 11:47
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MOBIUS
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Prifysgol Caerdydd
Dec 1999
time: 15:22
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Sorry guys but between NY and London, it has to be London
Americans say that their 'culture' (I use that word ever so loosely!) is what is being spread now most successfully across the globe - and that other great cultural cities such as Rome, Athens, Paris etc are 'past it'...
So, what is America's greatest cultural export I wonder?
I would have to say the English language
Face it, every time you yanks open your mouths you speak our language, so I'd say a pretty much 100% cultural penetration of your country's language has to count for something...
England is the home of English and London is the capital!
On a more serious note however...
London history pisses over NY's (continuous history for about 2,000 years, including a Roman heritage and being the capital of the largest empire the world has ever seen!
London architecture pisses over NY's (London has the stuff coming out of it's ying yang!)
London theatre pisses over NY's (better, cheaper, more! Also home of Shakespeare's Globe theatre)
London cinema pisses over NY's (as in choice of films to watch as NY has practically NO independent non Hollywood cinemas!)
London is the epicentre of global timekeeping (GMT)
London is the home of the Commonwealth.
NY is OK I guess, but I prefer Boston!
The US will always be in the UK's cultural shadow as long as it continues to use English as it's language (there's always Spanish! ), whereas cities such as London, Paris, Rome, Athens etc represent true culture (IMO), America 'culture' represents a fast food trashy culture I can well do without...
If you Yanks want to hold that crap up as 'culture' be my guest...
LA???
Although my natural bias is to say London, I'm wondering whether it's not actually Athens, or Rome actually...
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Sir Ralph
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Long live teh Schwampel!
Dec 2001
time: 06:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Datajack Franit
Absolutely not- jeans fabric was invented and produced firstly in Europe, more precisely in the cote d'azur. That's where their names come from:
jeans: of Genova, Italy
denim: de Nimes, France |
With Nimes as source of the name denim you are right, but that's just the fabric. About Genova as source of the word jeans I hear the first time. The commonly known inventor of jeans, the German jew Löb Strauss (better known as Levi Strauss) was born in the village where I live and we have a pretty good museum here. According to it, a partner of Strauss (I don't remember the name, was it Davis?) invented a method to make denim clothes tearproof by putting rivets in the most "critical" places. Strauss funded the production. The color of the denim was blue in its warp and white in its weft threads (or was it vice versa?  ), so the classical jeans color was born. First, the jeans were called "waist overalls", the name jeans was used only since the 50s or 60s of the 20th century. Since these clothes were invented in America and intended to be used by American gold-diggers around SF, you can't take away the invention of jeans from our American friends, even though Genova may be located in Italy. Jeans are American clothes without any doubt. But I agree, they have nothing in common with culture.
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Once for all: Coca cola, computers and industrial areas are NOT culture! I can agree with the supporters of Boston, New York, even LA, but Silicon Valley.. that's just ridiculous  |
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That is not "high" culture- it's not culture at all |
Well, here I agree. New York and Boston are centers of modern arts without any doubt, but to call hamburgers, strip clubs, Coca Cola, Oprah, soaps and cheap movies "culture"... It's all about definition. Americans, especially those of the western part, may count it culture and see themselves the culture champions. Culture the Europeans are talking about, is historic buildings, paintings, the music of baroque and renaissance and ... well ... strip clubs, when it comes to Amsterdam  . In Asia and Africa are other kinds of culture. To each his own.
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Boris Godunov
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Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:22
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quote:
Originally posted by MOBIUS
London theatre pisses over NY's (better, cheaper, more! Also home of Shakespeare's Globe theatre) |
New York is the current world capital of theater. A show isn't considered "there" until it is a hit on Broadway. It is the world's litmus test for hit theater.
quote:
London cinema pisses over NY's (as in choice of films to watch as NY has practically NO independent non Hollywood cinemas!) |
This is laughably untrue. New York is the capital of America's independent films, and there are HUNDREDS of independent film theaters, festivals, premieres, shootings, etc. I know because I attend them all the time, and see them filmed here all the time, and am friends with indy filmmakers.
New York surpasses London as a fashion, music and literature center. It's also more multi-cultural.
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Ethelred
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quote:
Originally posted by Du_Chateau
Basketball has nothing to do with culture and more with sports. L.A. mostly imports its culture from New York, Detroit, Paris, and Tokyo. |
And I thought I had a problem with missing the jokes.
LA has its own culture and that includes lots of things from Mexico. Detroit exports poverty but it did once export the cars for the LA car lifestyle. However that style was LA and not Detroit. Paris, you got to be kidding. Tokyo gets culture from LA at least as much as LA does from Tokyo.
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Hollywood was a city in the early 20th century. I guess you have not been paying attention to the news of Los Angeles either. |
Lots of parts of LA were once indepent cities. Perhaps you haven't been paying attention.
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Along with the San Fernando Valley, Hollywood wants to sucede from Los Angeles. Los Angeles needs its metropolitan area to be cultural significantly whereas many of the other cities listed on the poll do not have to have their metropolitan area to be culturally significant. |
Many not all. LA however is the county and not just the city.
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You must not get out of Anaheim much. That is because even though that some directors decide to make parts of their movies out here doesn't show the true purpose of the Antelope Valley. |
Directors make films all over Southern California. Long Beach where I used to live was very popular.
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The major attractions in the Antelope Valley are EAFB and Plant 42. That's right the Antelope Valley is more into Aerospace than Culture. On the other issue see my previous write. |
So then it has no culture. Except for the normal Southern California culture which happens to be the same as LA.
It wasn't to be expected that I would always guess right.
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I am originally from the Boston, lived in the San Fernando Valley, and in the Antelope Valley. Also I do not like the giants, but the dodgers. |
Well then you have one thing in your favor. Likeing the Dodgers.
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1 interesting tidbit the dodger-giant rivalry was started before both teams move to California to New York. |
Of course it did. Got even more intense afterwards because the owner of the Giants figured out that the Dodgers got the better of the two cities. O'Mally knew he couldn't move out here on his own with no other baseball teams on the coast so he talked the Giants into moving. Then the Giants got Marichal and things got really intense with his throwing at Dodgers pretty much indiscriminatly.
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I have visited Detroit a number of times also. Detroit even has a rock style that was named after it's nickname. |
Thats culture? If so then the LA garage bands count at least as much.
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Datajack Franit
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Bologna
Aug 2002
time: 06:22
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quote:
Face it, every time you yanks open your mouths you speak our language, so I'd say a pretty much 100% cultural penetration of your country's language has to count for something... |
Exactly: as in the roman times latin was the most important language spoken in the world, english is the most important nowadays
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London history pisses over NY's (continuous history for about 2,000 years, including a Roman heritage and being the capital of the largest empire the world has ever seen! |
Hey Rome-stuff is my field - London was actually built around 50AD by the romans after they invaded Britain around 15 years before- So it will become a 2,000 years old city by 2050 circa
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About Genova as source of the word jeans I hear the first time |
Well Genova in english is called Genes, what's about that? Strauss firsly bought those fabrics from the sailors of Genes. Then the french fabrics produced in Nimes were cheaper, so when he ran out of fabric he started using that fabric only- fabric de Nimes
quote:
Since these clothes were invented in America and intended to be used by American gold-diggers around SF, you can't take away the invention of jeans from our American friends |
Of course they invented the clothes but hey, not the fabric
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even though Genova may be located in Italy |
I actually live in Italy and can definitely say that it's not a place I just invented, but the most important italian port- Genova are Nimes are located on the east and west side of Marseille
Of course jeans and culture just don't mix
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Yeah, only ****in opera sung in Eyetalien is culture! That American stuff thats not culture. |
Actually it's opera in french
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Ethelred
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Yeah. Why the heck not? Motown is only one aspect of music. An influential part yes but still not exactly the British Invasion.
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Boris Godunov
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Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:22
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quote:
Originally posted by orange
Jerusalem is the birthplace (or at least, most important centre) of two major world religions and influenced another over 2000 years ago and STILL remains an important city to this day. That's only one argument for it.
What I meant by the possibility of a 3rd world war is that the city is so important, and so literally divided amongst peoples, that it and the land around it are so important as to potentially spark a giant war, and fuel 50 years of ongoing warfare.
If that, along with the buildings and historical centres of Jerusalem aren't enough to put it above NYC Chicago or LA in your mind, than I'd like to know what these cities could possibly have that make them better choices. |
I will grant you that Jerusalem is the most important religious center in the world, absolutely. Rome would be a distant 2nd.
However, that is still small potatoes for modern culture generation. I already gave my points for NY earlier, and I stand by those.
Until Jerusalem actually starts that 3rd world war, what goes on there isn't really having much impact on the daily lives of people around the world. What happens in NYC, London, Paris, LA, etc. is stuff that spreads quickly around the world, whether it be artistic movements, music, theater, movies, television, fashion, literature, etc. Jerusalem wouldn't even be in my top ten of cultural centers.
Historical city? Absolutely. Religious center? Tops. Geopolitical importance? Pretty damn near the top.
Cultural influence? Nope.
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GePap
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of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:22
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Its obvious that I think that NYC city is the world cultural capitol, for all the reasons I and Boris have made clear-
What astonishes me is that Paris has so many while London lags so far behind. The only city that comes close to NY in culture today is London; Paris and all other EU cities are distant when it comes to creating the ideas that spread worldwide, and most American cities are just as far behind if not more.
On Jerusalem: it is a relegious center, thats it. It is that that gives it any geopolitical importance, and honestly, it has less than Tel Aviv, and far far less than many cities elsewhere. people really put things out of perspective: Geopolitically speaking, the most important state in the Levant are Turkey (people, location, water), Iran(location, oil, people), Egypt (location, people), Iraq(oil), and Saudi Arabia(oil). If Israel and Lebanon and Syria were wiped off the face of the earth tommorrow, it would not influence the world economy, or the world balance of power much, not for the EU, the US, Russia, China, or India, the states or group of states with the majortiy of land, people, wealth, and nukes. Jerusalem is a 'sentimenta favorite', but its really not that important anymore-it reahced it geopolitical height back in 1099ad.
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15-10-2002 11:27
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