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GePap
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of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:22
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Well, Markus, look what city is winning!
Real Lufe isn't civ3 people: cuture does not build up, it does not accumulate: it must be made constantly, it is about vibracy and life, not abou staid and fossilized remains. Take Vienna: incredible churches, museums, palaces, Operas and so forth, and yet, much of it has an old, worn, has been quality, a city living on past glories, not present ones. It still is a great city of culture, as it does have great Philarmonics and Operas, and is the modern music capitol of Austria, but there still is some life missing. Vnice is the same: a living museaum piece, admired yes, but whats the last thing to come out of Venice?
As for the pop. culture and LA thing......
NYC is the birthplace of US pop. culture- it was in NY that Jazz was transformed from a local to a national music, it was in the NY area that film begun, and TV as well. Mor eimportantly, it was in NY that American advertisement, the life blood of pop. culture, begun, and it is still the unquestioned capitol of adverisement. Pop. Culture is produced in LA, but its financed from NYC. The director is in LA, the owners, who make the decisions, they live in NY. It was in NY that countless immigrants mixed their culture with American culture: pop culture is a mix, a stew of influences from all parts of the US, and abroad, and it is in NY that this takes, place, or at least, it is NY that makes it possible, thorugh its patronship.
NY may not have many ancient building, except a few we brought stone by stone, but it can not be surpassed, (though perhaps equalled) as a repository of world art treasures. It has some of the greatest and most important cultural institutions in the world.
NY has dozens upon dozens of newspapers in 20 plus languages, and countless stores feeding the cultural needs of 40 plus nationalities. You can go to the Polish parade, then the Hispanic, then the Italian, then the Chinese, then the German, then the irish, then the Dominica, or Puerto Rican, or Colombian, or mexica parades. You can enjoy chinese new year in china town, the go see Bollywood starts in Nassua county, there to entertain the Indian disapora, then eat Korean food at Koreatown, or Japanese, or thai, or actually, whatever cuisine that exists in the world. Eating cannolis in Mulberry street, and then turnign a corner and seeing a McDonalds sign in chinese is a real eye-opener.
To me, the proof is simple: If you work in the world of:
Music, film, TV, fashion, advertisement, theater;
If you are a painter, sculptor, a composser or musician, a producer, actor, an academic, an art critic, architect;
If you own a company that produces art, a company that stages art, a collector of art, a collector of pop culture;
What city do all these individual have an equal need to visit, in which city could they all find what they seek and more? In what city can a person of any state go and actully survive, if you find the right neigbohood, without ever speaking anything other than your own native toungue? In Paris? perhaps, in Calcutta? No
Answer: in NYC.
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Japher
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Ook! Ook! Ack! Ack! Ack!
Jun 2002
time: 05:22
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If I have to pick one city that influences world culture I would be hard pressed, but I would have to go with LA. This is only because LA has been more able to spread it's culture world wide through movies and the related industries. I want to point out, as others have, that it is not the content of the movie that is indicative of the culture, yet it is the industry of movie making, the creation of icons, and the propogation of the stardom popularity that is flexed by LA making these movies.
I do, however, believe that selecting a cultural capitol of the world is rather difficult. San Francisco Bay Area has a lot of cultures that intertwine through out the area, yet I am sure other cities do as well. Paris though? I have not been to Paris in over 5 years, and I still do not feel any cultural influence from France at all. Tokyo? Sydney? It is hard for me to say seeing how I was born in raised in Cali.
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Kontiki
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Canada
Aug 2001
time: 00:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
I think NY is still the winner here. Cities around the world strive to be like NY more than any other town. It is held as the quintessential metropolis, where art, theater, film, literature, etc. all thrive in a very small geographic area. There is a reason why, moreso than any other city, NY is the setting in books, TV, and films. |
While true, it is also valuable to remember that New York has and continues to strive to be like London. Granted, NY has passed London in much of the grandeur, but culturally, as in theatre, literature, etc, there is a huge amount of emulation on the part of NY.
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GePap
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of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:22
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quote:
Originally posted by SpencerH
GePap
all those things are also present in London |
What, being the advertisement capital of the world? how can that be in London as well?
I would place London above Paris as a cultural capitol, but, as the US, not England, is the worlds current cultural dynamo, and has been since 1945 or before, then the city that is most vital to that dynamo, is the cultural capitol, and that is NY.
Heck, it was even NY that invented the 'ammusement park' at Conney Island, it was the NY area that first had highways and parkways and so forth, hell, NY was the first city to have suburbs.
I think what many people are forgetting is that NY is not only manhattan: 2 major American cities and 40 other towns were joined into NYC in 1898, and many other towns, and even cities with their own culture (for example, the cathedral of Newark is though by most critics, to have the greatest stained galss windows in the world after chartres, which is seen as the absolute benchmark) all gravitate around the 800 pound gorrila that is NYC. Heck, NYC is the biggest city of the Western world for a reason (except if you count Tokyo-Yokahama as part of 'the west')
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SpencerH
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Co-Ruler of my patch of land south of Birmingham Alabama
Feb 2002
time: 23:22
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quote:
Originally posted by GePap
What, being the advertisement capital of the world? how can that be in London as well? |
Well, I wasnt including advertising with 'culture'.
quote:
I would place London above Paris as a cultural capitol, but, as the US, not England, is the worlds current cultural dynamo, and has been since 1945 or before, then the city that is most vital to that dynamo, is the cultural capitol, and that is NY.
Heck, it was even NY that invented the 'ammusement park' at Conney Island, it was the NY area that first had highways and parkways and so forth, hell, NY was the first city to have suburbs.
I think what many people are forgetting is that NY is not only manhattan: 2 major American cities and 40 other towns were joined into NYC in 1898, and many other towns, and even cities with their own culture (for example, the cathedral of Newark is though by most critics, to have the greatest stained galss windows in the world after chartres, which is seen as the absolute benchmark) all gravitate around the 800 pound gorrila that is NYC. Heck, NYC is the biggest city of the Western world for a reason (except if you count Tokyo-Yokahama as part of 'the west') |
As with Boris, spoken like a true NYorker.
I wonder where the Euros are?
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Ethelred
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quote:
Originally posted by GePap
Heck, NYC is the biggest city of the Western world for a reason (except if you count Tokyo-Yokahama as part of 'the west') |
New York NY 8,008,278
Ciudad de México 8,605,239
Mexico City is larger than New York.
If you go with the idea of metropolitan areas rather than actual cities then New York is larger.
1 Tokyo, Japan 28 million
2 New York City, United States 20.1 million
3 Mexico City, Mexico 18.1 million
4 Mumbai, India (Bombay) 18 million
5 Sao Paulo, Brazil 17.7 million
6 Los Angeles, United States 15.8 million
7 Shanghai, China 14.2 million
8 Lagos, Nigeria 13.5 million
9 Kolkata, India (Calcutta) 12.9 million
10 Buenos Aires, Argentina 12.5 million
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SpencerH
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Co-Ruler of my patch of land south of Birmingham Alabama
Feb 2002
time: 23:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
So instead of discussing, you just dismiss anyone's opinion if they live in New York? Give me a break, that's lame. In that light, let me tell you what I think in general of the views of Alabamans (and I lived there once, too).
I'm not a native New Yorker anyway, and neither is GePap. I believed NYC was the greatest city in the world before I moved here, and that in fact is WHY I moved here. |
What is there to discuss? I dont dismiss your arguments, we simply dont agree. We're not discussing whether NY is the worlds greatest city (where youd have a better argument IMO), but whether its the worlds cultural capital. Given that (per usual) there are no definitions as to what we mean by "culture", and the enormous scope of that topic, its unlikely that there will be any consensus. SO why bother to argue about it?
PS I'm not an Alabaman or even an American and I've lived in more cities in North America and Europe than I care to count.
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Du_Chateau
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Antelope Valley
May 1999
time: 21:22
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A note about L.A. being cultural center. No Dice.
San Francisco has more culture than L.A.
I do not think Hollywood any studios, just exotic Movie Theatres. Universal Studios is not in Hollywood but in Universal City. NBC and Disney Studios are in Burbank.
I would think that Burbank, Pasadena, Buena Park, Anahiem, San Bernideno, and Riverside would have more cultural value then Los Angeles.
In the U.S. I would choose either New York, Boston, Philadephia, Washington D.C., or Detroit before choosing L.A.
Because this was World I chose Jerusalem. Not only is it an old city it is a holy city for 3 major religions: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.
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Ethelred
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quote:
Originally posted by Du_Chateau
San Francisco has more culture than L.A. |
Doesn't export it. You are still thinking Culture in any case not culture the way I am. If you insist on Culture SF is still inferior. LA has more museums including the Getty. A better orchestra AND a better basketball team.
quote:
I do not think Hollywood any studios, just exotic Movie Theatres. Universal Studios is not in Hollywood but in Universal City. NBC and Disney Studios are in Burbank.
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Hollywood isn't even a city. LA, as most of the other cities mentioned here, includes the metropolitan area. Which is most of LA county and a good chunk of Orange County.
quote:
I would think that Burbank, Pasadena, Buena Park, Anahiem, San Bernideno, and Riverside would have more cultural value then Los Angeles. |
You left out Antelope Valley in you excess. RIVERSIDE? Thats ridiculous. I live in Anaheim. Its sole contribution to word culture is Disneyland. Its a fair sized contribution but it is also part of the LA metropolitan region or it wouldn't have been built there.
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In the U.S. I would choose either New York, Boston, Philadephia, Washington D.C., or Detroit before choosing L.A. |
Detroit? That implies that you just don't like LA. Maybe you are from San Franisco originally. That would explain things as San Fransicans don't like LA even though the only thing Angelenos don't like about SF is the Giants.
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MRT144
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Seattle Washington
Oct 2002
time: 21:22
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fantastic! SAN FRANCISCO WAS NOT EVEN MENTIONED! and dont make me laugh with this talk about L.A...until you actually visit L.A for a month then you dont see how depressing it is.
as for the world id go with london, i heart london
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Ethelred
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See, San Fransicans just don't like LA. Its a one sided situation though. I think the people in SF have an inferiority complex. Maybe it just comes from the Giants.
Seen at the San Fransico Giants stadium. Back when Juan Marichal was head hunting for LA Dodgers.
"Love baseball. Hate the Dodgers."
Now how couldn't that sort of anti-LA attitude not effect the people of San Fransico.
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Ned
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of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:22
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Jeans came from San Francisco. Hippies came from San Francisco. Marijuana became popular in San Francisco. Gay pride started in San Francisco. The anti-war movement remains centered in San Francisco. San Francisco is the world's capitol of counter-culture.
Now this may not be "high" culture, but it does seem to have spread far and wide from here.
High tech is centered in Silicon Valley. This is the center of biotech, the Internet, integrated circuits, computers, computer software, computer games, and the list goes on. Other areas have some of this, but not as much as Silicon Valley. We lead the way.
LA is known for TV and Film, movies stars and other vacuous types, such as the redoubtable surfer dude and the Valley Girl. Stupidity is the leitmotif of LA, while intelligence is the Hallmark of San Francisco.
San Francisco is one of the most cosmopolitan places on earth. Peoples from across the world live here and largely get along famously.
In contrast, Chicano and Black gangs roam the streets of LA, accosting passing motorists and keeping their own turf safe from opposing gangs of a different headband color. LA has a brutal police force and periodic race riots to further enhance LA's reputation for tolerance and cultural "mixing."
Both SF and LA are awesome wellsprings of world culture. However, they are decidedly different.
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Datajack Franit
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Bologna
Aug 2002
time: 06:22
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quote:
Jeans came from San Francisco |
Absolutely not- jeans fabric was invented and produced firstly in Europe, more precisely in the cote d'azur. That's where their names come from:
jeans: of Genova, Italy
denim: de Nimes, France
So the americans made them popular, but they did not invent them. Inventing and spreading an idea are two different concepts 
quote:
High tech is centered in Silicon Valley. This is the center of biotech, the Internet, integrated circuits, computers, computer software, computer games, and the list goes on |
Once for all: Coca cola, computers and industrial areas are NOT culture! I can agree with the supporters of Boston, New York, even LA, but Silicon Valley.. that's just ridiculous 
quote:
Now this may not be "high" culture, but it does seem to have spread far and wide from here. |
That is not "high" culture- it's not culture at all
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14-10-2002 21:11
Toronto, Ontario.
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