13-10-2002 14:28									#91
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The US West Coast for Pop Culture.

Then there are the old world cities which have Timeless Culture:

Athens
Kyoto
Roma
Paris
London
Dublin
Vienna
Milan
Venice

	13-10-2002 16:38									#92
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Melbourne, australia is the arts capital of the world, or was that arse capital

	13-10-2002 21:34									#93
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quote: Originally posted by Ethelred Culture has little to do with inteligence. If it did Wagner wouldn't be considered cultured considering what an oaf the man was.

Wagner may not have been a nice man, but he was by no means unintelligent. He was a genius. Sure, he was an audelterous, Anti-Semetic jerk, but he was still a genius.

	13-10-2002 21:52									#94
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seems to go between New York and Paris

	13-10-2002 21:59									#95
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I wasn't intending to say he was stupid. Just that Culture isn't a sign of much except Art rather than anything else. Nothing in it is inherently superior except in artistic terms and even that is a matter of opinion, see Combat Ingrid for an example of a different oppinion on what constitutes good art.

Me, I am listening to E. Power Biggs playing Bach organ music, specificaly The Great Fugue in G minor BWV 542 . Not in the mood for rock of any kind at the moment, much less brain burning stuff like death metal. Sometimes even rock that I really like makes my brain buzz, especially when I need more sleep.

	13-10-2002 22:04									#96
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Well, calling someone an "oaf" generally means you're calling them stupid.

There is an excellent fully orchestrated version of the Great G Minor Fugue by the Philadelphia Orchestra under Ormandy. It achieves an even more epic scope.

	13-10-2002 22:30									#97
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I'm surprised of the absence of Florence.

A city that gave birth to people like:
Leonardo, Galileo, Dante, Macchiavelli and many others (the list is too long)
That has a lot of cultural centers and art museum etc...

Anyway, I think that from the list the two biggest ones are Paris and Rome
Closed seconds are NY and Athens
A little bit belowe I would but Beijing, St Petersburg and Kyoto (not in the list)
And I think there are too many American cities in the poll (what Chicago and Atlanta ever did culturally?, same for LA (if you exclude Hollywood) )

Saluti

	13-10-2002 22:41									#98
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Umm... the kultural capital of the world?

You have none of the real cultural centres in that poll at all...
Amsterdam
Kristinestad
Goa
Mänttä

	13-10-2002 22:58									#99
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quote: NO NO NO! I and others have voiced our support for Boston, and only Boston has actually had a viable historical defence for its cultural importance out of all the cities in this thread!

Please, tell me you were making sarchasm

quote: what Chicago and Atlanta ever did culturally?

Someone thinks that Coca-cola is a cultural achievement

	13-10-2002 23:02									#100
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Amsterdam--they're all too busy getting baked to create culture these days!

	13-10-2002 23:05									#101
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quote: Originally posted by Datajack Franit Someone thinks that Coca-cola is a cultural achievement

Well it is on dinner tables all around the world. And the Fat Jolly Santa Claus was created in a Coca Cola add campaign.

	13-10-2002 23:10									#102
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Santa Claus created by Coca cola? Oh what's next?

	13-10-2002 23:16									#103
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Not the original santa, but that fat red bastard. He's landed in Finland, too. Our original one was a gray-clad, skinny old alcoholic guy.

	13-10-2002 23:23									#104
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Not Santa Claus himself. Just the Fat Jolly version. With all that red and white.

Although the Snopes Urban Legends site tries to claim that the standard came earlier they are glossing over the fact that it wasn't actually standard till Coke started its add campaigns.

http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/santa.asp

	14-10-2002 00:54									#105
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Dont make the huge mistake to think LA could be a cultural capitol just because of Hollywood. Even considering Hollywoodians films as culture, as I do, the cinematic grammar has been invented in NY, regarding the USA. And actually, France and ex-URSS have had, about cinema, much more influence than any other place. Hollywood has created a genre of films, which was famous during the late 40's and 50's, and which is called "Hollywoodian classic". This genre of film is not totally outdated, but it is obviously not the mainstream of nowadays culture.

And if you consider LA highest culture place in the world because thats where many films are done, change your vote to Marocco, since thats the place were about 90% of mainstreams films are made.

	14-10-2002 01:07									#106
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It's ridiculous to deny that in the creation of the modern culture Boston has had less influence than Atlanta or Chicago…

	14-10-2002 01:13									#107
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Pandemoniak: For number of films, Indian productions exceed Hollywood by far. It's amazing what a huge film industry exists over there, almost without our knowledge. Of course we don't miss much generally. Most productions are lousy and in contrast to the US, they aren't expensive crap stories but cheap ones, what means they don't even have good special effects.

	14-10-2002 01:15									#108
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Actually it's ridiculous to deny that Boston has had less influence than any european capital

	14-10-2002 01:20									#109
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Sure Wernazuma, you got a point. But Bollywood (the name for the indian large industry of films) has certainly a lesser influence than mainstream occidental films, thats why I didnt really considered the option. But to me, Hollywood certainly doesnt make LA a cultural city.

I voted Paris for many reasons (first may be chauvinism ) : highest rate of cinemas per citizen, croassroad of old and new culture, high academic place, good situation in the Old World Europe (not a crossroad of Europe like Brussels or Strasbourg, but theres definetely more different cultures in Paris than in London...), high touristic place, etc...

	14-10-2002 01:24									#110
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Glad to see you agree with my position DataJack! By the way, I've BEEN to Italy, and practically all of the Italian cities mentioned here. Now when was the last time you were in Boston? I highly reccomend it.

	14-10-2002 01:31									#111
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Monolith, I know something about Boston- if we're talking about culture, then Boston deserves a spot more than any other american city BUT still you can't say that the cultural value of Boston can be even compared to Athens, Paris, Rome, Wien..

	14-10-2002 01:32									#112
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Data and Monolith,
Boston is certainly a high cultural place in the USA, at the scale of USA history and culture. But it just cannot be compared to Roma or Paris, in a worldwide view of culture, IMO. COuld you tell me why Boston should be as important ?

	14-10-2002 02:33									#113
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there's no such thing as the world's cultural capital.

	14-10-2002 03:06									#114
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Toronto, Ontario.

It is THE most multicultural city in the world.
And some of you might like it even more.....second largest gay population, next to San Francisco.

Or am I going by the wrong definition of culture?

	14-10-2002 03:10									#115
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WHERE THE HELL IS Newcastle, England, its the expected winner of Europes capital of culture, so shouldn't it be up there!?

	14-10-2002 03:14									#116
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the cultural capital of europe changes every year

even Rotterdam, for some ungodly reason, got the award.

	14-10-2002 03:41									#117
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quote: Originally posted by Pandemoniak Dont make the huge mistake to think LA could be a cultural capitol just because of Hollywood. Even considering Hollywoodians films as culture, as I do, the cinematic grammar has been invented in NY, regarding the USA. And actually, France and ex-URSS have had, about cinema, much more influence than any other place.

Hardly. One director form the USSR and a few from France have indeed affected directors methods and styles. How many filmgoers have had their lives influenced by Sergei Esenstein? How many by any one of dozens of American film makers?

quote: This genre of film is not totally outdated, but it is obviously not the mainstream of nowadays culture.

Creating genres again is not the same as influencing the average person. I think you understate the influence of Hollywood in filmmaking outside of the US in any case.

quote: And if you consider LA highest culture place in the world because thats where many films are done, change your vote to Marocco, since thats the place were about 90% of mainstreams films are made.

First I didn't call LA high culture. Just the most influential place in the world on other people's culture. Second, just how many films have you seen from India versus Hollywood. India churns out movies for a simple reason. They have lots of movie theaters and a shortage of TV so people go to see movies in India instead of watch TV. The US churns out at least a much mass entertainment as Bollywood does in India. Its just not as many movies as in India.

	14-10-2002 04:26									#118
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screw culture! I'm living in Iowa, what do I need that for anyways?

	14-10-2002 07:42									#119
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Toronto, Ontario.

	14-10-2002 08:48									#120
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Yeah, I'm the one who voted for Atlanta. So, sue me. Coca-Cola, CNN, Gone with the Wind, MLK and the modern Civil Rights movement, and yes, the modern incantation of Santa Claus (fat, red, jolly) were all born in Atlanta and I for one am proud of it. After all, no less an expert on modern American city life than Tom Wolfe selected Atlanta and it's culture as the setting of his second novel A Man in Full.

But, in a way, I'm not proud of Atlanta at all. Many of you are looking at "culture" only in a positive light, but there is quite a pernicious influence the city of Atlanta has had in the development of modern American cities and culture, and it is clearly expressed in one word: homogenization. Atlanta is the modern city par excellence (sp?). It represents the corporatization of America to such a degree that it is impossible for insiders to see it.

Let me quote from Dan Simmons' Carrion Comfort:

quote: We arrived in Atlanta at a little after three in the morning. I had never liked Atlanta. It lacked all of the grace and charm which typified (Southern) culture and, as if to show its continued disregard for Southern style, it sprawled now in all directions, an endless series of industrial parks and formless housing developments.

This, in essence, is modern Atlanta, a form of city that first took root in the Deep South in the mid-70's and has spread throughout the country so that now most every city is nothing but a ceaseless parade of shopping malls, bar 'n grills, McMansions, endless ribbons of interstates, with no local identity of it's own. You go to Atlanta and you might as well have seen Jacksonville, Charlotte, Houston, Nashville, Seattle, or most any large city in the US. Sure, New York, LA, and Boston all have their charms, but they, too, are being overwhelmed by the creeping "bland-ization" that has made it almost impossible to tell one modern American city from another. Dan Simmons is spot-on: Atlanta is a city with no respect for its past and its success is leading the entire country (and possibly the world) to the same fate.

Most culturally influential in the world? Probably not in the sense that y'all are thinking, but the "Atlanta-ization" of modern cities is continuing unabated. Consider yourself warned.