14-10-2002 19:55									#61
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 that's a matter of supporting the US.

See my post to Moby.

	14-10-2002 19:58									#62
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there's no reason.

	14-10-2002 19:58									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Gods Pet Monkey Come to Australia Sure, we are not Bali, but we got some pretty neat stuff too . But if you’re looking for a tropical setting, most pacific islands would do the trick, you could also use one of the many places on the Great Barrier Reef (which BTW, is absolutely beautiful)

And Alexanders Horse.

	14-10-2002 20:01									#64
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If the gov't gets too much flak from the public for supporting the US, that would be a real shame. I hope that a principled approach wins through.

Deep down, I'm guessing that Australian action or inaction in the war against terrorism wouldn't sway the likes of al Qaeda. Just as American action or inaction on Israel/Palestine had only a peripheral impact on the goals for 9/11.

Fact is, 99.9% of the world's population is a valid target under current al Qaeda ideology. Bonus points for westerners. Triple word score for Americans.

Last edited by DanS on 14-10-2002 at 20:29

	14-10-2002 20:09									#65
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according to sources:
1 Greek person and 1 Greek Australian person were hurt in the explosion and one Greek Australian person was killed.

Another Greek person of no known ID is missing.

	14-10-2002 20:18									#66
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Stop demonstrating your Greek Psychosis, Paitycakes!

	14-10-2002 20:18									#67
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 that's a matter of supporting the US. and it's ok to support it when your interests are common but if they are not then don't (to the point that the US terrorism this time doesnt affect you). i'm sure many european countries will never have the fate of bali just because of that.

If you actually mean what you say here, then you're one of the most pathetic persons I've ever encountered.

	14-10-2002 20:19									#68
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please winston i havent offended you (well most of the time) and i'd appreciate if you keep some level of discussion too.

	14-10-2002 20:24									#69
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Well it's difficult being nice while at the same time having to read a statement like the one I just quoted you on.

I noted you didn't dispute or correct it in any way. You're rubbish paiktis22.

	14-10-2002 20:27									#70
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you lose your temper often and you have done so in the past to many posters.

you should learn the difference between empathy and vitriolic critisism and if you disagree try to apply the latter.


some civilized person.

	14-10-2002 20:29									#71
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I haven't lost my temper. I just called you on the way your mind truely works. And you don't like that, which I certainly understand...

	14-10-2002 20:29									#72
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i know you are viciously pro american but you shouldnt curse people who disagree with you.

you dissapoint me again for the 2nd time.

	14-10-2002 20:31									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Winston I haven't lost my temper. I just called you on the way your mind truely works. And you don't like that, which I certainly understand...

relax winston, you'll have a stroke

	14-10-2002 20:38									#74
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Why don't you two take your disagreement to another thread. This is about the people that have died and are missing not personal crusades against the US or personal insults.

	14-10-2002 20:40									#75
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I wasn't planning on pursuing it any further.

	14-10-2002 20:44									#76
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Then you should think before making "comments" like this and then not listening to my advice to let it go.

so fine by me, back on topic, at last.

	15-10-2002 00:58									#77
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Before we Americans get accused once again of ethnocentrics (and constant reminders of 9/11), I wish to offer my deepest condolences to all the vistims and families. A year or so ago, I probably would have chocked this all up to some idiots in a far corner of the world. In a sense our tragedy of last year has made me much more empathetic to other's losses and as a consequence will not allow me to diminish the horror and misguided evil that these latest acts represent against innocents. Regardless of reason for attacks the victims first and foremost in our thoughts (and prayers).

	15-10-2002 01:07									#78
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Well said, Ogie. My sympathies go out to the victims & their families.

-Arrian

	15-10-2002 01:31									#79
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These acts are repugnant to common decency and humanity. I hope the perpetrators are hunted down.


I disagree with Case in the statement that this act would lessen Australian support for US military intervention in Iraq. If it is proven ( or at least widely assumed) that Muslim extremists were responsible, then I believe you would see a hardening of Australian resolve to fight terrorism and a willingness to accept more and more agressive action to do so.


Thats what i see coming out of America after 9-11 and i would expect much the same attitude from pretty much any western country if directly attacked. I just don't see the people kowtowing and wanting to become isolationist. What I foresee is a nation enraged and wanting to strike back

	15-10-2002 01:43									#80
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How is Australia gonna react to this? What sort of revenge is sought?

	15-10-2002 03:30									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Case Incidently, I like the way Australians start apportioning blame as soon as a disarster hits - it certainly beats US style flag waving.

Isn't it great?

The Americans rally behind their leaders and wallow in that gooey flag based sentimentality they love so much.

We get the wounded in, clear up the dead, give our leaders a big slap in the head, make a hanging knot out of our flag and get ready to go after those who did it

The practical way Australians are dealing with this is probably the only bright spot in the whole damn mess. Does make you quite proud to be Australian in a quiet sort of way.

	15-10-2002 03:54									#82
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber Case: If the reason Australia refuses to do something is because it is afraid of these attacks then expect to see this everytime Oz is confronted with a difficult decison. Make your arguments about it being wrong or right about attacking Iraq all you want but the reason better not be because you are afraid.

Sprayber, Australia doesn't have a very big military. Hence any Aussie commitment to Iraq will require that a large and well trained portion of the Australian military will have to be sent outside Australia at a time when Australian's feel directly threatened. As such, it would be political suicide to commit troops to Iraq.

	15-10-2002 04:00									#83
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Australia has never been afraid of anyone. It will not be afraid now.

	15-10-2002 04:02									#84
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quote: Originally posted by Case Sprayber, Australia doesn't have a very big military.

I thought that was the reason you went to all of our wars.

	15-10-2002 04:07									#85
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No we'll probably send military forces to Iraq. This Bali thing doesn't require troops - its a police and intelligence op. They already know who the bombers were. Just gotta find em now.

	15-10-2002 04:23									#86
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Known dead, missing and injured Australians
October 15 2002

An unofficial list of the known dead, missing and injured Australians following the bomb blasts in Bali:

DEAD

14 Australians are confirmed dead including:

NSW

Shane Foley, 34 (from the Coogee Beach Dolphins junior rugby league club)

Clinton Thompson, 29 (also from the Dolphins)

Josh Iliffe, 28 (from the Dolphins)

Adam Howard (from the Dolphins)

Dave Mavoudis, 29 (from Wagga Wagga and also a member of the Dolphins)

SA

Josh Deegan (from Adelaide, a member of the SANFL club Sturt)

Angela Golotta, 19 (from Adelaide who was on holidays with her parents)

* An injured person aboard an RAAF Hercules evacuation flight died en route to Darwin overnight.

* Another person died this morning in Royal Darwin Hospital after being flown in from Bali.

MISSING

220 Australians remain unaccounted for including:

NSW

Gerard Yeo (from the Dolphins football club)

Paul Cronin (aged in early 30s and from the Forbes Platypii rugby union club)

Greg Sanderson (aged in early 20s from the Platypii)

Brad Ridley (aged in early 20s and from the Platypii)

Shane Walsh-Tills (aged in his 30s from Leeton in the Riverina)

Chloe Byron, 15 (from Bondi)

Kathy Salvatori, 38 (from Sydney and wife of former rugby league international Craig)

Robyn Webster, (from the Sydney suburb of Marrickville)

Cathy Seelin, (from Sydney's eastern suburbs)

Lyn McKeon and her daughter Marissa (from Sydney)

Steve Buchan and his wife Geraldine (from Sydney)

Gail Airlie

QLD

Billy Hardy (from the Southport Sharks football team and brother of Big Brother housemate Jessica)

Ryan Vanville (from the Southport Sharks)

Jamie Miles (from the Southport Sharks)

SA

Bob Marshall (from Adelaide. An official with SANFL club Sturt)

VIC

Jessica O'Donnell (from Melbourne)

Rebecca Cartledge (from Melbourne)

WA

Anthony Stuart, 29 (from Perth and a member of Kingsley Cats football club)

Jason Stokes (from Kingsley Cats)

Jonathon wade (from Kingsley Cats)

Byron Hancock (from Kingsley Cats)

Cory Paltrich (from Kingsley Cats)

TAS

Tim Hawkins, 28 (from Hobart, a former Australian rower and brother of Olympic gold medallist Stephen Hawkins)

State unknown

Marni Colquhoun, 27

Nicole Harrison, 29

INJURED

113 Australians are confirmed to have been injured including:

NSW

Andrew Acheson (from the Forbes Platypii) - serious injury

Adrian Acheson (from Forbes)

Kristy Webster, 15 (from Marrickville, Sydney) badly broken arm

Ross McKeon (from NSW) hospitalised in Australia

VIC

Jason McCartney (Kangaroos AFL player) burns

Mick Martyn, (Kangaroos AFL player) burns

Jake Ryan, 21 (Sandringham footballer) severe burns and shrapnel wound

Steven Armstrong (Melbourne AFL player) minor injuries

David Robins (Melbourne AFL rookie) minor injuries

Greg Elliot (from St Kilda, Melbourne)

Leanne and sister Samantha Woodgate (from Melbourne) badly burnt

Linley Huguenin, 22 (from Wantirna, Melbourne) severe burns and shrapnel wound

Kim McKerow (from Boronia, Melbourne) severe burns

Angela Graham (from Melbourne) burns

Rick Elliot, 38 (from Melbourne) treated in Darwin hospital

Belinda O'Donnell

QLD

Brendon Barry (from Brisbane) stable condition in a Bali hospital

Jodie Cearns (from Brisbane and step daughter of Olympic gold medallist heptathlete Glynis Nunn-Cearns) in intensive care in a Darwin hospital

Adam Wright (from Brisbane. Jodie Cearns' flat mate)

Jayson Pate (from Southport Sharks football team) shrapnel wounds

Aaron Rossow, 23 (from Rockhampton)

WA

Adam Sanford (from Perth)

Aaron Lindsey, 19 (from Perth) critical condition in Bali hospital

Michael Kennedy (from Perth)

Chad Wood (from Perth)

Lee Harrison (from Perth) lacerations and cuts

Laurie Kerr (from Perth Kingsley Cats football team) 17 stitches in head

Paul Haines (from Perth) severe burns

SA

Julian Burton (from Sturt Football club) burns

State unknown

Emma Brawn

David Gafa

Travis Barton

* One Australian is among four victims receiving treatment at Singapore General Hospital

	15-10-2002 04:33									#87
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Victims came from at least 20 countries
October 15 2002

The powerful car-bomb on the Indonesian island of Bali killed more than 180 people and left hundreds more wounded.

The following countries have reported nationals to be either dead, wounded or missing. Many of those unaccounted for are not necessarily victims of the blast but have not been located yet by their families or governments:

AUSTRALIA: 14 Australians have been confirmed dead but Australian Foreign Minister Alexander Downer said today that the final toll would be "very much higher". More than 200 Australians were injured. The foreign ministry said some 200 Australians remained unaccounted for, but it expected some of them to turn up as travellers contacted their families.

BRITAIN: 33 Britons are believed to have been killed in the attack, British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said today. Straw told reporters in London "we are as certain as we can be" that 18 Britons were among the dead and 15 Britons still missing were also believed to have been killed.

CANADA: A Canadian national is being treated for burns at Singapore General Hospital, a hospital spokeswoman said.

DENMARK: Three Danish women aged between 18 and 21 are missing following the blast, the Danish ambassador to Jakarta told the Ritzau news agency today. Two Danes were injured but were out of danger, Gert Aagard Andersen said.

ECUADOR: An Ecuadorian was among the dead, according to Ketut Semara Jaya, an Indonesian doctor in Bali tasked with identifying the victims.

FRANCE: French officials said today they were trying to confirm whether a French national was among the dead. Of the five French citizens wounded, three were evacuated to Singapore in serious condition, foreign ministry spokesman Francois Rivasseau said.

GERMANY: A German woman was among the dead, 10 Germans were wounded and 12 were missing, according to the German foreign ministry. Of the injured, four have been released from the hospital and the remaining six were in Australia or on their way there for treatment, a ministry spokesman said.

GREECE: The Greek foreign ministry said one Greek national was wounded and another was reported missing.

HONG KONG: Ten members of a Hong Kong rugby tour have been missing since the blast, the Hong Kong Football Club, said in a statement Monday. Seven Britons, one American and a German were unaccounted for, their club said. The 10th missing member of the tour party, Briton Charles Vanrenen, 26, was believed to be on his way to Australia for treatment.

INDONESIA: Nine Indonesians have been confirmed dead but the figure is expected to rise significantly with the identification of more of the victims. Nearly 200 Indonesians were injured in the blast, Indonesian officials said.

ITALY: The Italian foreign ministry said six Italians were slightly injured in the blasts. They were treated in hospital and released.

JAPAN: Seven Japanese women were injured, according to the foreign ministry in Tokyo, including two sisters suffering from severe burns who were evacuated to Singapore on Monday.

NETHERLANDS: A Dutch man is missing following the blast, according to the Dutch news agency ANP. Ketut Semara Jaya, an Indonesian doctor in Bali tasked with identifying the victims, said a Dutch national was among the dead.

NEW ZEALAND: New Zealand foreign ministry spokesman Brad Tattersfield said 12 New Zealanders had been reported injured in the blasts, with eight requiring hospital treatment. Two had been seriously burnt. The ministry said it is trying to account for 195 New Zealanders. The missing were not necessarily victims, said Tattersfield, but "people that family members have told us are in Bali at the moment".

SOUTH AFRICA: One South African national was seriously wounded and two others are missing, the South African foreign ministry said.

SOUTH KOREA: A pair of South Korean sisters, Moon Eun-young, 31, and Moon Eun-Jong, 29, are believed to have visited the club where the blast occurred and are listed as missing, the foreign ministry in Seoul said.

SWEDEN: 10 Swedes are missing and three young Swedish women were wounded in the attack, the Swedish foreign ministry said today.

SWITZERLAND: A Swiss woman was killed and another five Swiss citizens were injured in the explosion, the Swiss foreign ministry said. Two of the injured were in critical condition.

TAIWAN: A Taiwanese woman, Kuo Hui-min, 23, accompaning a rugby team in Bali for a tournament, is missing along with four members of the team, according to Glory Travel Service Co. Ltd which arranged their trip.

UNITED STATES: Two Americans were killed and three wounded in the blasts, according to a State Department official.

	15-10-2002 04:59									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Mr. President Australia has never been afraid of anyone. It will not be afraid now.

You're not serious are you? Australia has always been terrified of foreign attack.

AH: I agree that troops probably won't be required to deal with this. Nevertheless, sending the SAS (which would be Australia's only useful contribution) to Iraq at this time would be a really dumb political move.

	15-10-2002 04:59									#89
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk What happens if it turns out that this was in response to Australian 'interference' in East Timor?

If it's Al Qaeda's fault, then to some extent, yes. After all, OBL said that Australians in East Timor should be killed. Just the usual insane comments from the muderous *****

It just proves that this inhuman attack in Bali is totally unjustified and nonsensical. The excuses for this attack (i can't say "reasons", because there aren't any) are Australia's involvement in East Timor and Afghanistan, and only to a lesser extent our suggested involvement in Iraq. But in all this finger-pointing, it should be pointed out that there are some people in this world who hate people for no more than who they are. In this case, because we are not fanatical muslims like them. The waste of human life is senseless, and those responsible should die a slow, painful death.

Unfortunately, we now know how the Israelis feel. Do nothing and they will still attack you, because they hate you for not being like "them". Do something and risk inciting more attacks and expanding the hate beyond the fanatics.

All this begs the eternal question - why can't people just live and let live?

	15-10-2002 05:09									#90
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quote: Originally posted by Lars-E How is Australia gonna react to this? What sort of revenge is sought?

We'll track down the culprits and try and bring them to justice. They better hope we get em before the Indons do because they are mad as hell and they don't exactly believe in legal process up there if you know what I mean.

I doubt there'll be any acts of revenge. What good would that do?

And like unlike another big country I could name, we can't just go off the bomb the sh*t out of another country we don't like until we feel better