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vmxa1
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Oviedo, Fl
Nov 2001
time: 21:23
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PF, the whole deal is as you go up in levels you must rely on your ability to get more out of your empire than the AI. You will start out in a bigger and bigger hole as you get to Deity. If you do not get top production, you will be dead. Your other means of getting in the lead is to either fight or trade. The map you have, does not allow for trading much, no lux, no tech. You need more land to have more cities for research and trade. By the way, I would have next looked hard at the posibility of trade for saltpetter. First does anyone want it badly and can I afford to give it to them. The game is really not going to be a problem to at least survive and likely win. I had not check the advisor, but I am sure the AI is not going to be willing to attack you anytime soon. If they do, it would be their mistake. I would go for a few cannons and make them suffer. You can not land that many units with galleys. Only India has a city on your land. I would not be surprised to see it flipdown the line a bit, now that culture improvements are in place.
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vmxa1
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Oviedo, Fl
Nov 2001
time: 21:23
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quote:
Originally posted by planetfall
One question left: how get AI to give techs on peace negotations.
-- PF |
You asked the wrong person, as I have never had the sucess that others seem to have. They do not give me a bunch of techs and gold. I feel good to get 1 or 2 techs and maybe a small amount of cash. If you are going well, they won't have many techs you don't have and the AI is usualy close to the edge on money in my games. The only time that is not so, is on Deity and before I get moving, at that time, I am not able to beat them out of anything. Once I can, it maybe too late to get much. It is sort of like the post about the school yard fight. If I check what they want for peace,I get the least they will give. If I put units on a tile next to a city and say the bit about the threats, they will give more. They can only give what they have. To me, at monarch, I may have a quick killing of a civ that is close and maybe a few small wars later, but not much until I am getting some parity. Then I go for the take over the world. I have eased back on my warmonger, just a tad.
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:23
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You have to really beat the crap out of them to get tech. I normally do this in the ancient age.
Example: Emperor, as Egypt -
War #1 - I attack an American settler team (settler/warrior) and capture 2 workers. American counterattack vs. my #2 city fails (barely) and I make peace in exchange for 4 techs and gold.
War #2 - I attack America with swordsmen, capturing 2 cities, including Washington and razing 3 others. I once again receive all tech and gold for peace.
War #3 - I attack the Aztecs with swordsmen, capturing Tenochticlan and razing 2 other cities. I receive all tech/gold for peace.
War #4 - I attack the Germans with war chariots and swords, capturing or razing all but 1 city. Same pattern.
War #5 - A slugfest with the Iroquois, the first of three. I capture two cities and inflict heavy casualties, but halt there. Peace got me a little gold, but as I now had the tech lead, dunno about tech. All future wars were fought with a tech lead.
[note: the razing mentioned was autorazing, not by choice]
So like I said, you really gotta go for the jugular to get them to cough up tech (the 1st American war really surprised me, though. Perhaps hitting that settler team was the key). If they fear you, you get what you want.
-Arrian
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jshelr
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pittsburgh
Apr 2002
time: 00:23
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One More Monarch Strat
Don't forget the late-game science route.
Last week playing England I started on a modest island with Persia. The good news was there was no iron. The bad news was that, after Persia was eliminated, there was still no iron. There were also no horses, salt peter, aluminum, oil, or coal. I got uranium!!
Needless to say, there was a huge gold outflow to pay for needed stuff all game long. And the small land mass kept me down the food chain. How to win?
Well, on Monarch the combination of rapid population growth in indvidual cities yielded by graneries and an early sanitation discovery, a well-built economy, and and early research of computers in the modern era to give you research labs and seti, will give you an edge in the modern era over the AI research pace. In this game, Cathy stole tech on me and almost beat me in the end. But I was crusing away from the pack doing "honest" research on my own.
Try this strat as a small civ on Emperor and the AI will often laugh at you!! It's a complete joke by Deity. However, even after the SS launch in this game I was still only third on the score table.
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planetfall
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Incoming from CO
Jan 2002
time: 22:23
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More Questions -- slipping & sliding on treadmill
Attached is 3rd game, year 1565, minimap.
Problems I am not able to solve:
1. China keeps getting further and further ahead in techs & military
2. Greece-Russia "war" vs China is ineffective
3. Production is average. Mostly in 33's, only one 55 shield.
4. Using luxuries for luxury trades nothing left for techs
5. Other than self-research, can't think of any way to get techs.
Military still too weak and last offer was 1500g/tech.
6. If could take care of China, how get Greece and Russia to duke it out?
Map key:
Greece__ Green, 32 cities. They took out France who was on same continent.
Russia__ Brown, 15 cities. Idaho continent.
Rome__ Rust, 6 cities.
India__ Purple, 3 cities
China__ Cyan, 18 cities, 3 natural luxuries, Hoover.
Germany__ Blue, 28 cities, few bonus tiles.
Game overview:
Russia used to have BS working on Chinese ironclads but no action recently. Never seen any Greek military. China keeps on bombarding coast lines.
Finally pulled my military up to "average", hah, hah. I have 2 DS and 34 infantry. China has:
85 infantry
15 fighters
10 bombers
8 BS
3 transports
5 marines
Guessed tech leads:
flight
communism
amphibious warfare
mass production
atomic theory
electronics
Finally decided to take out India. Only tech is communism. Only because they tend to give ROP and can't afford to allow staging of invasion force in India. Just declared war. Weird, India "remembers what you did to France..". I had no relations with France except to establish embassy.
Suggestions?
 Attachment: c1565map.gif
This has been downloaded 43 time(s).
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planetfall
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Incoming from CO
Jan 2002
time: 22:23
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vmxa1,
Thanks. That's about where I was, 2 techs back and about 2 I never research. {Demo, free artist, printing press, adv flight, amphibious warfare, music theory}.
It was especially surprising to suddenly see I was 4-5 techs behind and I didn't have anything to trade.
BTW-- at one point something weird happened, a ton of techs were researched in one turn. I think game got confused with free Mil Tradition. I have unselected that option as it messed up the game.
If you want a save of some inbetween year, let me know. I don't save all turns, but do about every 5 turns until I finish a game. Got burned once where computer died and without autosave on, lost 4 hrs of game time.
-- PF
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vmxa1
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Oviedo, Fl
Nov 2001
time: 21:23
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PFf, I ran out to 1570AD, researched Elec/Ind/National/Steam/Medicine/Sanitation/Replacement/Comm/Sci Method and some thing else, but man they are hard to catch. Greece is at war with China,Russia and India. India is at war with all. I missed out on two cities as the Chinese snuck in and got them from me. They have MI and Tanks, Carriers and battleships , nasty busines. I thought I could get back in by production and that may be an outside shot, but I would have been better off to go into all out troop production. The main cities now have hospitals and factories and are now cranking good. Lots of cash and all units upgraded. The best shot right now is for India to make peace with China and then I can get the rest of their cities. RR's are up on both land mass in German cities. A steady flow of INf are coming over, not my favorite unit to attack with, but no choice.
What I was trying to show you is that the only way to be a force is with a great industry. That leads to a strong military. The land you started with was not very good, but the hole you were in was too big. I forget what level this was at, but at regent/monarch you need to get some wonders and be close to the leaders in tech by late middle ages. On manarch and lower, they should not beat you to ToE and later wonders. If you are not close at that stage, then either the start was horendous or you are doing something wrong.
What I wanted you to compare was what the cities were doing and the tech learned. Most games at these levels the BC years need to be managed carefully. If you fail to get the number of cities and the infrastructure early, it can get out of hand.
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planetfall
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Incoming from CO
Jan 2002
time: 22:23
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mudder, fudder, it's stopped raining, kids are playing. Kindly disregard this leddar.
There's light at the end of the Industrial Age.
quote:
Originally posted by vmxa1
PFf, I ran out to 1570AD, researched Elec/Ind/National/Steam/Medicine/Sanitation/Replacement/Comm/Sci Method and some thing else, but man they are hard to catch. |
I ran out to about 1625. I don't have comm. yet, but do have flight. That finally put an end to the annoying Chinese bomber missions. Combined with continual Russian harrassment, China has finally been forced out of republic.
quote:
Greece is at war with China,Russia and India. |
Interesting, Greece at war with Russia. What I did as soon as Russia and Greece made a MPP was to make one with both. It had been ages since I checked so I just checked and they let their MPP expire. It keep them from attacking me when I was "weak military". Soon I will stop my MPP and let them go at it, but not quite yet. Waiting for my GA.
quote:
India is at war with all. |
In my 3rd replay, India is gone.
quote:
I missed out on two cities as the Chinese snuck in and got them from me. |
They tried that on my also, but a stack of catpaults knocked them to red and riflemen finished the job. I was lucky. China had 2BS and 1 trans 1 tile from landing. Put 2 units on shore, used my 2 art's to weaken them. Just so happens 2 Russian BS and 1 carrier where just coming around the bend when China made its move. Big mistake. Russia jumped the BS and a weak transport ran for shelter. Whew, talk about luck.
quote:
They have MI and Tanks, Carriers and battleships , nasty busines. I thought I could get back in by production and that may be an outside shot, but I would have been better off to go into all out troop production. |
Definitely a confused game. But with your help I am learning. Can't run the early game on autopilot yet at this level. Need to expand faster. They already have MI and carriers. Interesting. In my game, no MI. Just to have 5 tanks, but now down to 2. I don't see any Russian brown spots on the pink continent yet, so must have used them for defense.
quote:
The main cities now have hospitals and factories and are now cranking good. |
I have a bunch of factories also. Production is not yet as high as I like. Only hospitals in cities that can benefit from them. Many cities are too tightly packed to benefit from hospital or are on coast and adding more pop only working sea won't help much.
quote:
Lots of cash and all units upgraded. |
How the h. did you do that? I can't afford to upgrade units. I finally got rid of my archers and warriors. My cash is about 1500g. 1000 for 50gpt interest and 500 reserves for urgent trade/upgrade needs. Going to spend some of that 500 next turn to rush either a 40T harbor or 80T airport. Depending on my cost figures.
quote:
The best shot right now is for India to make peace with China and then I can get the rest of their cities. RR's are up on both land mass in German cities. A steady flow of INf are coming over, not my favorite unit to attack with, but no choice. |
Agreed I hate fighting with infantry, but no offense. Not going to waste cavs. You get way way too far behind if wait for panzers. Need to do something with infantry. I have 3 full infantry armies. 2 are on Roman continent. It is kind of fun to watch Roman infantry attack my invading infantry. Since their closest land is mountains, I only lost one infantry to their 5.
quote:
What I was trying to show you is that the only way to be a force is with a great industry. That leads to a strong military. The land you started with was not very good, but the hole you were in was too big. I forget what level this was at, but at regent/monarch you need to get some wonders and be close to the leaders in tech by late middle ages. On manarch and lower, they should not beat you to ToE and later wonders. If you are not close at that stage, then either the start was horendous or you are doing something wrong. |
Monarch. Great-- a milestone. I missed ToE, etc. I think I was too passive pre 10bc.
quote:
What I wanted you to compare was what the cities were doing and the tech learned. Most games at these levels the BC years need to be managed carefully. If you fail to get the number of cities and the infrastructure early, it can get out of hand. |
So I am finding out. I really, really appreciate your wisdom and hints. Post a later save so I can see how your adjusted your cities and military.
-- PF
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Mattaba
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I'll start from your c860 sav.
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18-10-2002 22:33
I was behind in tech until I crushed Germany. Golden Age -> Great Library. From that point on, I led.
Attachment: 
Techs are coming faster now, so catching up will come. Will come back to the game later to see where I am in 15xx.
, but I'll have a look at them and see what I can do.
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