23-10-2002 01:25									#61
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Well I just checked 860, I think it can be won if you checked all victory conditions on, so you can do a prebuild for the UN, otherwise I think you are in trouble.
But i'm gonna start from 10 B.C. because it's to chaotic for me.
By the time i'm further in the game, my help will probably be worthless.
But good luck anyway.

	23-10-2002 01:35									#62
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Mattaba Well I just checked 860, I think it can be won if you checked all victory conditions on, so you can do a prebuild for the UN, otherwise I think you are in trouble. But i'm gonna start from 10 B.C. because it's to chaotic for me. By the time i'm further in the game, my help will probably be worthless. But good luck anyway.

Yes it is chaotic. Hopefully you will have a better game than either of us.

UN--Domination--SpaceShip--Culture wins DE-Selected.

Score--Conquest wins Available

-- PF

	23-10-2002 12:06									#63
	Full PM-box? Change here!

PF, I was looking at the early save and I do not see the FP anywhere and it is not available to build, was it disabled or am I just blind. I tried to scroll through all the cities and then I went to the culture advisor and did not see it in any city. Do I need glasses or sleep or what.

	23-10-2002 13:31									#64
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 PF, I was looking at the early save and I do not see the FP anywhere and it is not available to build, was it disabled or am I just blind. I tried to scroll through all the cities and then I went to the culture advisor and did not see it in any city. Do I need glasses or sleep or what.

I had that too, I got a great leader and wanted to build the FP in the newly conquered indian town with the GL(dunno its name).

	23-10-2002 15:37									#65
	Suffering from ads?

Another question: I see that some things have been modded, but some thing don't go right.
Which changes have you made?
I mean when I entered the Middle Ages I received monotheism AND military tradition for free, WTH military tradition?

	23-10-2002 19:14									#66
	FP Support Apolyton

FP is in the middle of the old Indian continent. This is the continent to lower left of backwards C of 3 continents. Will post new minimap today. The old Indian continent is about the shape of a 3 leafed clover, and FP is in the center.

-- PF

	23-10-2002 19:49									#67
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Mattaba Another question: I see that some things have been modded, but some thing don't go right. Which changes have you made? I mean when I entered the Middle Ages I received monotheism AND military tradition for free, WTH military tradition?

Only 2 edited tech changes: Mil Trad free tech in Ind Age, and Genetics in Modern. I was just experimenting to see what effect it would have to have a free tech in the later Eras.

Undid MT in editor, but won't effect this game.

Editor changes
Oh, note bombers have lethal bombardment but not art type units. Bombers can also see invisible, i.e., subs. Bombers and jets have
slightly increased range. One or two of the naval units has range increased by 1. Can't recall which. Actually think it was carrier so easier to move BS-carrier stacks. To keep the same ratio between DS and carrier, DS increased by one also. Oh, AEGIS also has increased range.

Can't remember if set radar art with range of 3. I was thinking of experimenting with this to see if it would make radar art useful for something other than to add shields to newly conquered city. SNN has more power but still AI and I rarely use them. Stealth fighter may have more power. I thought about it based on some discussion but can't recall if made the change. I usually only have 0-2 stealth fighters/game.

Don't think any prefence changes to: inf, MI, MA, tanks, panzers, marines, or cruise missiles.

-- PF

	23-10-2002 20:39									#68
	It is raining again in 1740 and smoke in the tunnel Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Played forward to 1740. Man is this game hanging out. It may mean conquest victory is not an option. I am attaching graphic of showing location of FP. Image of 1740 was corrupted. 1740 looks the same but purple and rust are now blue.

Latest plus developments--
1. Roman continent all German now: maybe some production gain. Biggest gain is addition of gems.
2. Finally got China to agree to peace.
3. Finally can build panzers
4. Finally got computers. Hope they aren't the old apples.
5. Spies in all civs

Latest minus developments--
1. Behind in techs again, about 6 techs. Very strange both Russia and Greece had Synthetic Fibers but this tech did not show on trade map.
2. Panzers will be useless vs MA
3. Greece will not accept a Mil Alliance vs Russia
4. Russia will not accept a Mil Alliance vs Greece
5. Others will not trade techs. Could be cash issue, only have about 1500 gold.


State of military build up in 1740

				

	    Ger  Gre   Ch    Rus

LAND					

infantry    89	   1	4      0

tanks       12     0	9      5

army         6     1    0      0

Mech Inf     0   141   74     48

Mod Arm      0    18    0      0

					

SEA					

BS           3     4   13     15

carrier      0     0    2      1

					

AIR					

bombers	    17    16   10      8

fighter      5     0   17      1

Jets         0     8    0     12

					

					

					

					

          Value     Rank		

MfgGood     863       1		

Prod       2232       2		

GNP        1407       2 

Attachment: fp.gif
This has been downloaded 28 time(s).

	24-10-2002 05:43									#69
	Got spare money?

PF, I was messing around with the thing and found that if I tried to steal tech, it would let me take a few, but others said I already knew them? I found it when I saw planes coming and the trade list did not show the Chinese having this and I did not? This was around 1565. Things were going good I though as I had the Rome cities in 1200's , EPIC and Acad up and had everyone at war and was moving along. Then I realized I had no idea how many techs behind I was. I guess the reason that I could not lay down a FP is that I have had no GA, can recall, it is not in the doc though. I do not comprehend what the rules are for this game, makes it tough. I do not think I ever had the AI beat me to ToE at monarch. I did a simi war stance, but this game would require a total war effort from the get go to work.

	25-10-2002 13:58									#70
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I played from 10 B.C till 710 AD already.
Things are looking better.
I poprushed libraries at the beginning because culture was very low.
I bought all techs except for chivalry.
I'm currently invading India with about 20knights 8 horsemen and 6 swordsmen.
I've taken 2 towns already and got a great leader.
It was a perfect FP city there, but it wasn't available in the build queue.
Planetfall could you tell me what are the requirements for the FP in this game? some strategic resource?
Anyway things aren't looking so bad in my game.

	25-10-2002 19:03									#71
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Mattaba I played from 10 B.C till 710 AD already. Things are looking better. It was a perfect FP city there, but it wasn't available in the build queue. Planetfall could you tell me what are the requirements for the FP in this game? some strategic resource? Anyway things aren't looking so bad in my game.

Good to know someone else is having a better time of it than we are. Keep going and let us see the results.

Re: FP, probably not enough cities yet. I think you need 50 before FP is available.

--PF

	25-10-2002 19:05									#72
	stealing a tech? Suffering from ads?

Huh, never tried that before, but if a game ever cried for stealing this one is it. Thanks for the reminder. I desperately need robotics.

-- PF

	25-10-2002 19:06									#73
	No genetics bonus Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Rechecked bonus techs. Genetics is not one of the. I was going to make genetics a bonus since it is so worthless and comes so late in the game but gave you espionage instead.

-- PF

	25-10-2002 20:16									#74
	What's with stealth bombers? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

What is going on? 2 carriers and 3 BS stacked offshore Greece. 4 Jets on AS. One lowly stealth bomber takes 2 HP off one BS. No jet reaction.

Does this mean:

a-- it's just a RNG thing, or
b-- jet's can't see stealth bombers so they get free strikes?

I have noticed the AI now only builds stealth bombers instead of regular bombers.

Thank you in advance for the explanation.

-- PF

	25-10-2002 20:25									#75
	Where would you land in 1820? Get a bigger avatar today!

Ok, it is 1798 and about 10 turns from landing possibility. I have bribed Russia and China to join me in war vs Greece. Details in next post.

Greek capital is way to south. I have identified 2 different landing zones.

Zone 1-- {cyan}
Coastal square, no defense bonus, closest to Germany, river between cattle and Paris might supply some defensive bonus. Point city to NW is a small size 6 city and easy to cut off from reinforcements. Also after rush library should be outside Gk culture influence.

Zone 2-- {orange}
Hill tile, 50% defense bonus, 3 turns longer to get there, neighboring cities are fair size and will take some time to eliminate them.

Evaluation: I like the defensive bonus of Zone 2 but feeling is it is better to give up some units to decrease odds of losing entire invasion force to a culture flip and thus go with landing zone 1.

I have never had just one landing zone before and AI has radar artillery. I don't know if RA will be used as offensive weapons by AI on only as defensive units.

Scheduled for landing:

36 MI, {12 in armies}
2 settlers
4 panzers
8 artillery

5 Carriers offshore with bomber support.

I may lose the entire set and have to rebuild for another landing, but it should start reducing the Greek Armed Forces and maybe help push them out of 1st place in productivity.

What do you think: is zone 1 ok or should I gamble on zone 2?

-- PF

Attachment: d1792_70percent.gif
This has been downloaded 20 time(s).

	25-10-2002 20:55									#76
	Military of civs in 1792 Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Summary data for last 14 turns of warfare:

China
All: lost 8 units
Army: -2 inf, -3 MI, -4 tanks
Air: -3 bombers
Navy: +4 BS

Russia
All: lost 14 units
Army: -2 MI, -5 MA
Air: +3 fighters, -5 bombers
Navy: -5 BS

Greece
All: gained 20 units
Army: +8 MI, -1 MA
Air: +17 jets, -4 bombers
Navy: -5 BS

Germay
All: gained 46 units
Army: +22 MI
Air: +6 Jets, +6 bombers
Navy: +6 BS, +4 carriers



Greek:German comparison

Greece



              ARMY           AIR           NAVY  ALL

Inf MI Tk MA Total Fight Bmb Total BS CARR Total Total

0  140  0 21   161    26   8    34  6    0     6   201





Germany

              ARMY           AIR           NAVY  ALL

Inf MI Tk MA Total Fight Bmb Total BS CARR Total Total

89  26 30  0   145    14  29    43 18    7    25   213





Year Advantange Germany in Unit count 

1772 -12

1774 -14

1776  -7

1778  -4



1780  -4

1782  -3

1784  -5

1786   7

1788  14



1790  14

1792  14

1794  16

1796  11

1798  12 

	25-10-2002 22:17									#77
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Stupid question: how do you make screenshots?
Haven't done it before so...

	25-10-2002 22:52									#78
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Mattaba Stupid question: how do you make screenshots? Haven't done it before so...

Not stupid question. I will assume you are using Windows version and not Apple.


1. Print Screen
This gets the image in buffer.

2. Switch to windows via Menu Key and start paint
This part is a bit tricky. Civ3 disables the standard switching key, Alt-Tab, etc., but if you have an enhanced keyboard {may cost $15}, there is a MS windows icon key by/at the left alt key. The MS windows icon will bring up trask bar. Start|Programs|accessories|Paint

3. Paste into paint
Control-v, or Menu|Edit|paste, and answer yes when it asks if you want to increase the window size.

4. From paint save as gif type file
You could also save as jpg but gif seems to have a better quality.

5. Edit the file to the correct size for the forum
For the forum the file must:
A-- not be too big. Limit is 500 000 bytes
and
B-- image size must be no greater than 600x600.

For editing, either use your favorite graphic imaging tool. My practice is to import into Freelance Graphics as the gif import filter works pretty well. I think powerpoint will also import. Make sure you embed the image in your presentation. Then instead of saving as Freelance/powerpoint file type export/save as gif file. Naturally before you do this you can add arrows and text boxes to explain your image.

I would strongly urge you browse the web and get irfanview as it will allow you to 1) easily crop images and 2) know what size the image is in pixels. I use unix so I use xv instead of irfanview.

6. When you post, browse your file system and select the file before your post.
NB: if want to preview your post, don't attach file until you are finished with edits.

7. Questions,
post them.

Good luck, have fun.

-- PF

	25-10-2002 22:53									#79
	Re: What's with stealth bombers? Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by planetfall What is going on? 2 carriers and 3 BS stacked offshore Greece. 4 Jets on AS. One lowly stealth bomber takes 2 HP off one BS. No jet reaction. Does this mean: a-- it's just a RNG thing, or b-- jet's can't see stealth bombers so they get free strikes? I have noticed the AI now only builds stealth bombers instead of regular bombers. Thank you in advance for the explanation. -- PF

I am not sure if they can not see them at all, but they do get by most of the time against jets.

	25-10-2002 22:57									#80
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I would probably go with zone 2 as I can get to two cities very quickly. I would learn to any place that gave me a chance to survive the first day.

	25-10-2002 23:05									#81
	Re: Re: What's with stealth bombers? Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 I am not sure if they can not see them at all, but they do get by most of the time against jets.

It's coming back. 50% chance of intercept vs bombers and 5% vs stealth bombers.

thanks

-- PF

	25-10-2002 23:17									#82
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 I would probably go with zone 2 as I can get to two cities very quickly. I would learn to any place that gave me a chance to survive the first day.

Don't I have to survive at least 6 days:
{ugh, that number is familar}

Day 1-- landing
Day 2-- plant city & rush airport
Day 3-- rush library and airlift reinforcements
Day 4-- rush barracks
Day 5-- pick off weak attackers
Day 6-- survive 1st second attack wave
Day 7+ Finally have at least some culture for a minimal resistance vs culture flipping.

Best military position is Zone 2, but best defense against culture flipping is Zone 1. I have not played enough games yet to know which is more important at this stage: military defense or not losing big military stack to city flip.


-- PF

	26-10-2002 01:19									#83
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Well, if I don't survive the first day, I do not need to worry about the 7th day. I do not have many flips, so I would not be too concerned. It can happen of course, but I have grab metros and held on. If you can bombard them down and then garrison large numbers, starve and put all on entertainers. I do not recall, but the cities in zone 2 were not huge (over 20) were they? If you are really worried about flips, raze the city and use the settlers to make a new one, may be the best play as you can now buy the upgrades, otherwise you have to wait for the resistance to end.

	26-10-2002 01:33									#84
	Increase Your PM Length

vmxa1,

Ok, thanks. I guess it will depend then on Gk military buildup rates. If start pumping up, will have to go with zone1. But if continue as have been, will go with zone2.

No I haven't had much problem with flipping either, just trying to guess at problems and avoid them.

Let you know next week. Big techs missing are: robotics, synthetics and nuclear power.

-- PF

	26-10-2002 01:53									#85
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Well you already have one of the key traits for the win, persistance. I know you can do it.

	26-10-2002 02:16									#86
	Got spare money?

Thanks.

The win/lose was longer a question for me. Now it is how long will it take and how to do it. I'll now leaning towards zone1 to test effectiveness of AI when has a strong military advantage.

The point is to keep on learning and having fun.

Later.

-- PF

	26-10-2002 04:27									#87
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

True

	26-10-2002 13:39									#88
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by planetfall Not stupid question. I will assume you are using Windows version and not Apple. 1. Print Screen This gets the image in buffer. 2. Switch to windows via Menu Key and start paint This part is a bit tricky. Civ3 disables the standard switching key, Alt-Tab, etc., but if you have an enhanced keyboard {may cost $15}, there is a MS windows icon key by/at the left alt key. The MS windows icon will bring up trask bar. Start|Programs|accessories|Paint 3. Paste into paint Control-v, or Menu|Edit|paste, and answer yes when it asks if you want to increase the window size. 4. From paint save as gif type file You could also save as jpg but gif seems to have a better quality. 5. Edit the file to the correct size for the forum For the forum the file must: A-- not be too big. Limit is 500 000 bytes and B-- image size must be no greater than 600x600. For editing, either use your favorite graphic imaging tool. My practice is to import into Freelance Graphics as the gif import filter works pretty well. I think powerpoint will also import. Make sure you embed the image in your presentation. Then instead of saving as Freelance/powerpoint file type export/save as gif file. Naturally before you do this you can add arrows and text boxes to explain your image. I would strongly urge you browse the web and get irfanview as it will allow you to 1) easily crop images and 2) know what size the image is in pixels. I use unix so I use xv instead of irfanview. 6. When you post, browse your file system and select the file before your post. NB: if want to preview your post, don't attach file until you are finished with edits. 7. Questions, post them. Good luck, have fun. -- PF

Thanks

I can finally build the FP.
I'm gonna invade Rome and hope to get a great leader.
I have discovered the other 3 civs and they are ahead 2 or 3 techs, so I don't know if I can get ToE.
With a well timed prebuild, I should be able to get the UN and win.

	26-10-2002 16:05									#89
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I entered the industrial age at 920 AD, I mean that's really early for Monarch.
This is of course also caused because you gave scientific civs 2 extra techs free instead of one.
I think this proves the power when commercial civs get big, both Greece and France must be research monsters.
I'm no tech behind and I will soon invade Rome.
My problem is that I haven't got much buildings in my cities and I only have 2 or 3 cities above size 6.
I'll post a screenshot and a SAV after the fall of Rome.

	28-10-2002 19:56									#90
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Mattaba Thanks I can finally build the FP. I'm gonna invade Rome and hope to get a great leader. I have discovered the other 3 civs and they are ahead 2 or 3 techs, so I don't know if I can get ToE. With a well timed prebuild, I should be able to get the UN and win.

Mattaba--

UN win is disabled like culture win as it comes too soon.

== PF