19-10-2002 07:28									#91
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Monkspider, Have you ever heard of Gustav Malher or Puccini? Mahler's symphonies are simply awesome. Puccini's operas are the most popular and performed operas worldwide.

I simply don't get your list.

	19-10-2002 07:29									#92
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Bach's Toccata in Fugue or Brandenburg Concerto 3 are good for the casual ear.
Mozart's Alla Turca
Mozart's Eine Kleine nachtmusik
Pachelbel's Cannon in D
Vivaldi's Four seasons
Beethoven's Emperor piano concerto
Ravel's Bolero
Brahms' Hungarian Dance 5

Those should be a good introduction. I'll let Boris chime in with his own picks.

	19-10-2002 07:30									#93
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Ned- I've heard of both of them, yes.

I just don't get your president list.

	19-10-2002 07:36									#94
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I have a special place inmy heart for Tchaikovsky's June

Jon Miller

	19-10-2002 07:45									#95
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i love orff!

	19-10-2002 07:47									#96
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I'll chime in with some (slightly) less well-known, but equally accessible stuff:

Haydn's 44th Symphony (Trauer)
Beethoven's 7th/4th
Any of Dvorak's or Tchaikovsky's symphonies - only some are famous, but all are good
Britten - Hymn to St. Cecilia
John Tavener - The Protecting Veil
Vaughan Williams - Pastoral Symphony
Shostakovich - Leningrad Symphony/5th symphony/10th symphony, oh dammit, all of them...

And, whilst I'm uncertain that they'd make a great introduction to classical music, the late Beethoven quartets and piano sonatas really are the be-all and end-all of music. They truly have never been bettered. And Snapcase can stick that up his arse.

	19-10-2002 07:49									#97
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You rock DM.

	19-10-2002 07:51									#98
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quote: the late Beethoven quartets and piano sonatas really are the be-all and end-all of music. They truly have never been bettered.

You sir are a genius.

	19-10-2002 08:10									#99
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Oh, I think not, but I know one when I see one.

	19-10-2002 08:11									#100
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here is a good site

http://www.classicalarchives.com/tchai.html

Jon Miller

	19-10-2002 08:12									#101
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although I have heard better performances

Jon Miller

	19-10-2002 08:16									#102
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You've just gotta roll with it, say what you say, don't let anybody get in your way...

	19-10-2002 09:03									#103
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Puccini's operas are the most popular and performed operas worldwide.

Not to nitpick, but the most popular opera in the world is indisputably Bizet's Carmen

Second place is a constant tussle between Puccini's La Boheme and Verdi's La traviata.

Orff--well, he's a one-hit wonder. I actually just got back from seeing Carmina Burana at Grace Church here in NY. It was the version for two pianos. Without the orchestrations, a lot of the weaknesses of the pieces are laid bare. Too much repetition for my tastes. It's still a great work, and the opening and closing are justly famous, but some of those middle bits are .

And monkie...for the second time, it's Canon in D. Not Cannon. BOOM!!!!

AND NO BOLERO. Dammit, it sucks. Ravel had FAR better pieces than that. He hated it himself (never intended it to be performed).

Here's the ordering of Beethoven Symphonies I would suggest:

5 (it's the most perfect of them all)
7
3
4
6
9
8
2
1

His late string quartets are indeed fantastic, stunning pieces...but they have been bettered. Shostakovich's no. 8 in c minor is an example, and Brahms can't be beat in terms of romantic era chamber music.

I want to like Shostakovich's 5th, but the last movement is so off-putting that I can't. It's watching a great movie only to have the ending blow chunks and ruin it for you.

Dvorak's symphonies are great, but I don't recommend Tchaikovsky's, except the 6th perhaps. They really aren't symphonies, anyway. They are a vaguely sonata-formish opening with 3 unrelated bits of music slapped on afterwards.

Caesar, there was a thread a while back (I think monkie started that one too) in which people listed classical recommendations.

	19-10-2002 09:18									#104
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"6th perhaps", my arse. Try the 4th for an archetypal and stunning Tchaik symphony.

Beethoven's 9th is such an integral part of my entire life I can't possibly be objective about it. But it is quite good, you know, and beware those who dismiss the final movement - they might be snobs, who want a malenky tolchok about the gulliver, yes they do, oh my brothers.

	19-10-2002 09:19									#105
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Tchaikovsky's 6th is good. Symphony 5 isn't bad either. Symphonies weren't his his strong suit admittedly. Probably my absolute favorite of his works is his first Piano concerto. I have a soft spot for Piano pieces, and that particular one is one of my all-time favorites. Of course, 1812, Swan Lake, and so forth are good too.

Sorry about Cannon Bori.

	19-10-2002 09:25									#106
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And you can't really go wrong with Mahler - apart from some early chamber works which you're unlikely to come across anyway, nothing he wrote was very far short of magnificent.

	19-10-2002 10:37									#107
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quote: Originally posted by monkspider Ned- I've heard of both of them, yes. I just don't get your president list.

The president's list was a test to see if people could really focus on a president's actual accomplishments rather than on biased propaganda. Certainly Washington was a great American and set a good example as a president. But he did not accomplish very much as president - at least not compared to every other president on the list.

Ask any kid, who was the better president, Polk or Washington? I can tell you what the answer would be. But the answer clearly is wrong if one simply focuses on what they accomplished while in office.

I left off the list some presidents with significant "negative" achievements - Eisenhower ended the Korean War. Kennedy kept the missiles out of Cuba. Nixon ended the Vietnam War.

Johnson's presidency was the worst failure in United States history dispite his "War on Poverty" legislation. So strong negatives cancelled strong positives.

So, I created the list based on my recollection if the presidents with the greatest accomplishments while in office. I may have left some worthy candidates off - such as McKinley, who won the Spanish-American war. But, even though he won the war, did it really accomplish anything for America or the world in the final analysis?

The final vote is very interesting. FDR wins, Lincoln is in second. This is somewhat understandable. But Clinton beating Polk? No way.

	19-10-2002 10:48									#108
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Boris, I am not going to dispute you on the popularity of Carmen over other operas. But as a whole, the most popular operas are Puccini's, Verdi's, Mozart's and the Wagner's, probably in that order. But Bizet and Puccini are not on the list. The three trailers are all on the list.

My favorite operas are Turandot, Cavalleria Rusticana and Don Giovanni.

	19-10-2002 11:19									#109
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Tough choice.

I can tell you its not Mozart: too many notes.

	19-10-2002 20:35									#110
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But the bit with too many notes is a great wedding march

	19-10-2002 20:45									#111
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Boris, I am not going to dispute you on the popularity of Carmen over other operas. But as a whole, the most popular operas are Puccini's, Verdi's, Mozart's and the Wagner's, probably in that order. But Bizet and Puccini are not on the list. The three trailers are all on the list. My favorite operas are Turandot, Cavalleria Rusticana and Don Giovanni.

In terms of numbers of performances, this is not quite true. In a recent survey (it is a few years old, but I imagine it hasn't changed much), the most-performed opera composers are in this order:

Verdi
Puccini
Mozart
R. Strauss
Rossini
Wagner
Donizetti

Turandot is a curious top pick of Puccini. I would put Tosca and Boheme above it easily. If only he'd lived to complete it...

	19-10-2002 20:46									#112
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quote: Originally posted by Anunikoba Tough choice. I can tell you its not Mozart: too many notes.

Hehehe, you wouldn't really want to agree with the Emperor in this matter, would you?

	19-10-2002 21:14									#113
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cant beleive nobody mentioned beethoven's 9th symphony yet. Or did i just miss it? It's like the classical music version of Queen's Bohemian Rhapsody.

	19-10-2002 21:16									#114
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Beethoven's 9th has been mentioned. But this thread is more about the composers rather than specific works.

	19-10-2002 21:17									#115
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quote: Originally posted by Ned FDR wins, Lincoln is in second. This is somewhat understandable. But Clinton beating Polk? No way.

I think New deal's success is a bit over rated.

	19-10-2002 21:26									#116
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if i here Vivaldi's Spring one more time in a commercial i will have to break something! the entire thing has been ruined for me

yeah i'd have to agree with Boris, Bolero is pretty poor

thanks for the recomendations everyone! looks like i've got many long hours of listening to classical music to do...