20-10-2002 01:12									#1
	Independence !! Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I suggest we could add a concept to the game : independance feeling. In order to relate events like the declaration of independence of the US, or other nationalists feelings, there could be a parameter of "nationalism/regionalism" set up according to distance from headquarters, being on another continent/planet, that could be changed by some ordinances.

Ie :
1 point per tile of land distance from HQ
1 point per [average speed of maritime units] tiles of sea distance from HQ

- 50 % if connected by land route to the HQ
- 25 % if connected by air or sea route (ie airports on both bases)
+10 points AND + 50% if on another continent
+20 points AND +100% if on another planet
- 10 points per police unit in base
- 95% if martial law allowed
- 95% if Iron Curtain declared
etc...
Total woul make a Rebel counter, percentage of chance for each base to rebel and claim independence.

After that, if a base rebels, riots occurs with all the population inside, that has to be handled by normal ways (nerve stapling, etc...). Each turn after the rebellion rising, and as longs as riots havent calmed down, there's a [rebel counter]% chance that it gets its independance and therefore escape of the faction's control.

Thats just an idea.

Edit : as Gateway suggested, other factions can help the rebels. It could be "probe missions" raising nationalism feelings and thus multiplying the rebel count, etc...

Last edited by Pandemoniak on 20-10-2002 at 04:19

	20-10-2002 01:16									#2
	Get a bigger avatar today!

so are you talking that areas would revolt against you or that you as governer for a large faction playing in singleplayer would declare indepence from the faction to start your own one.........? (does that sentence made any sense?)

	20-10-2002 01:20									#3
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

They could either declare independance to make their own faction (SP, possibly MP if someone can code the AI), or join another faction (SP and MP). That would be based on proximity with other factions, culture, etc... an improved culture system of Civ3 actually

	20-10-2002 01:25									#4
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

so you are talking about an AI thingy for in SP the player wouldnt be able to do it.....pity but still cool!

	20-10-2002 02:52									#5
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I mean if you play multiplayer, each faction has a player, but if a part of a faction rebels, it has to be controlled : either by another player, either by an AI. While in single player, it will always be the AI which will control the others factions

	20-10-2002 03:33									#6
	Tired of ads?

It is also possible for the human players to incite such rebellious thoughts among enemy factions, thus crippling an enemy from within. Furthermore, through military, economics, and/or diplomatic support efforts for the rebels, you may gain a new ally once the rebels won their independence.

-Gateway103

	20-10-2002 04:08									#7
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Indeed ! That way great tactics could be made

	20-10-2002 06:49									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

How about this: happiness would influence independence: a dissatesfied populace would be given a boost of independence feeling due to rebellion against the tyranical ruler...

	23-10-2002 01:08									#9
	Increase the size of your Attachments

No, I dont think thats to be confused. Of course unhappy people could revolt and leave the faction, like in CTP, but theres many examples in hiostory where happy people had a strong feeling of independence. I dont think we shoudl mix happiness and nationalism/regionalism.

	23-10-2002 10:14									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I agree with Pande that nationalism and happiness should be 2 different issues. If we want to get both implemented, I would say that they would be as 2 separate factors in that case.

Anyway, I support this idea of nationalistic declaration of independence. The effect could be calculated like Pande suggested, but also by the distance from the capital (like corruption in Civ).

And GW's suggestion. Yes, indeed, great tactics for mind control. The propaganda and rebellion features could be integrated to the diplomacy system and any espionage/diplomacy units.

This could be furthermore spiced up by the feature seen in Civ III that all of the population of a city aren't immidiately becoming friendly to the new ruler when you capture an enemy city. This would pretty much reflect the real world too. When you first capture the city, only a certain percentage would be converted into friendly citizens, while the rest would be loyal to the old government. Although these would be converted to friendly citizens as the time passes (~ they get used to your rule) or more swiftly or slowly depending on the development of the city (especially spiritual/religious and happiness city improvements). This would mean that the rival group that once had the city would have an opportunity to use propaganda, persuading and diplomacy to get a rebellion revolt that would lead to regaining control of the city.

Summa summarum: more interesting diplomacy tactics.

	23-10-2002 18:16									#11
	Tired of ads?

Just one word: Culture
HQ can provide a certain "production" of culture that tend to decrease with the distance. Ordinances, SE settings, Facilities will modify this value and a base behaivior will be influenced by other Faction's Culture through "Immigration" or wars.
But only if seriusly unhappy a base will seek to claim his indipendence.

	24-10-2002 03:23									#12
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I think we are underestimating the notion of continents, that I tried to keep in what I suggested. London had a cultural brillance overseas, during the american Independence War, but the fact that they were on another continent, thus living in another world where londonian culture is "obsolete" or not concerned. It think way of lives influenced rebellions and nationalism much more than what we consider in this preparation of such a feature.