 |
| |
|
| |
|
|
Serb
|
|
Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:23
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by David Floyd
First of all, I agree with Sonic. I would certainly prefer to see the Germans destroy the Soviet Union, before being destroyed themselves by the US.
Secondly, serb, will you admit that it would have been objectively better if the US and Britain gave the SU the finger, and drove as fast and as far east as they could to occupy territory before the SU? |
David, I don’t blame you for your silliness, it’s American brainwashing machine, which made you so naive, so arrogant and so silly. You are the product of this system a product of American arrogance. Only a product of this system could believe that murder of millions of Soviet people in case of German victory over SU would be a right thing. Only a product of this system could believe that army of his country, an army, which never saw a battles of East front scale, could win vs. the one of the most powerful and most victorious armies humanity ever saw. Just answer one single question- are you sure that Americans were ready to sacrifice… say TEN millions of AMERICAN LIVES (let’s took less then half of Russian casualties) for liberation of Europe from nazism? As for me if your casualties would grow more then 300 000 soldiers you have lost, then your population just elect a new president who promised to stop the war.
One more thing Floyd. If you were so great damn world policeman, so great protector of human rights and defender of democracy, then why you waited until HITLER DECLARED WAR ON YOU? Why you done nothing to stop him until he attacked you? Perhaps you just don’t have balls, because you are country of traders who wanted to make profit on incoming war, not a country of warriors as you describe it.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Serb
|
|
Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:23
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Sprayber
Serb: You are pinning everything on what the Soviets did in WWII and are ignoring what happened since then. Didn't the Ukrainians welcome the Germans at first as liberators? That is until they began to be rounded up and sent off. I can only imagine that any sense of gratefullness to the Soviet Union was lost the second the decision was made that their fates would be determined in Moscow. Can you attempt to understand the disappointment that the poeple in EE felt when they learned that they traded Berlin for Moscow? For a lot of Eastern European people living today, it is Moscow that represents oppression and fear, not Berlin. This would be especially true for those living in the Baltic countries where their independence was stripped.
Look at Vietnam. Do you think that people there look at the support that the US gave to them during the fight against the Japanese? Hell no. They only see what happend when the US intervend in their affairs during the 60s and 70s. For good or bad the image of America is defined by them according to what happened then. So is the image of the Soviet Union defined by how they kept their "allies" in line after they were "liberated" |
Why? WHY? WHY no one could understand why this thread was started?
I’m perfectly realize that they consider Soviets as occupants, but this is not the topic of this thread.
The topic of this thread is:
1) Is it OK for people of Baltic States to hate ALL MODERN Russians for what communists done?
2) Is it OK for people of Baltic States to teach their children in modern schools that all modern Russians are bandits, addicts and just "human crap"?
3) Is it OK for government of Baltic States absolutely legally treat Russians living there as second grade people without civil rights?
4) Is it OK for people of Baltic States to raze graves of Soviet soldiers and destroy monuments dedicated to people who fought vs. nazism?
5) Is it OK for people of Baltic States to treat their Red army veterans who fought vs. nazism as crap, and at the same treat their nazi as heroes?
6) Is it OK for people of Baltic States to create monuments dedicated to their nazi?
Could anyone answer those questions for me?
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Blisterz
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Serb
David, I don’t blame you for your silliness, it’s American brainwashing machine, which made you so naive, so arrogant and so silly. You are the product of this system a product of American arrogance. Only a product of this system could believe that murder of millions of Soviet people in case of German victory over SU would be a right thing. Only a product of this system could believe that army of his country, an army, which never saw a battles of East front scale, could win vs. the one of the most powerful and most victorious armies humanity ever saw. Just answer one single question- are you sure that Americans were ready to sacrifice… say TEN millions of AMERICAN LIVES (let’s took less then half of Russian casualties) for liberation of Europe from nazism? As for me if your casualties would grow more then 300 000 soldiers you have lost, then your population just elect a new president who promised to stop the war.
One more thing Floyd. If you were so great damn world policeman, so great protector of human rights and defender of democracy, then why you waited until HITLER DECLARED WAR ON YOU? Why you done nothing to stop him until he attacked you? Perhaps you just don’t have balls, because you are country of traders who wanted to make profit on incoming war, not a country of warriors as you describe it. |
Wow, I really don't care where I live, as long as you don't live near me.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Sonic
|
|
Vilnius, Lithuania
Dec 2001
time: 07:23
|
|
Lithuanians did NEVER burned children (some of course did, but those were criminals). Many people in fact helped Jews by offering them home and shelter when nazi army pursuited them. These people risked their own lifes to help Jews. I think they did a right thing, I don't think Jews should be killed, I also don't support Hitler thus I am NOT nazi more than you are Stalinist. Lithuanians didn't ever killed blacks or Asians or whatever you told.
As for graves of Soviet people you are very wrong. In most places all graves are remaining, even with these Soviet symbols. Nothing was destroyed from them. For example, in the main central park of Palanga, not even graveyard, there is grave/monument for Soviet troops and it wasn't destroyed.
No, WE ARE NOT teached in schools that Russians are bandits, we see that ourselves. I DON'T say all Russians are bullies, I talked about ones who live in Lithuania. Unlike for example Polish minority, these Russians never assimilated into culture and they still thinks Russia is superior. And when I watch criminal news, about 50% of criminals are Russians, wjhile only 8% of people are Russians.
We treat our nazi as heroes? We currently have most of them in jail or courts! Learn something before saying that Serb. And our veterans has their clubs and bigger social guarantees, I certainly know that as I know one veteran.
We create nazi monuments? You are maybe stupid or what? Please name at least one such a monument
Russians doesn't change, Now they does the same in Chechnya.
Russians are woithout civil rights? LEARN HISTORY! In Lithuania, they have all rights and citizenship. Don't mix Latvia and Lithuania please.
IN MY OPINION EVERYONE IS HUMAN, It is not so in your opinion however, you think Russians are superior and can do what they wants and all others are only second grade humans, maybe you are undercover Zhironovski?
Sorry for harsh words people, but I am currently very angry. That guy calls me **** for nothing, I don't know why you think he shouldn't be banned cause he obviously has certain troubles and can't discuss or even LEARN things before starting discussing and talks absolute non-sense using word "f*ck" as an arguement.
Last edited by Sonic on 21-10-2002 at 00:22
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Sonic
|
|
Vilnius, Lithuania
Dec 2001
time: 07:23
|
|
Well, as I am now a bit calmer...
Yes in 1939 SU annexed Lithuania and not defending from nazis but instead cooperating with them. They defended only when nazis attacked. And they defended SU, not Lithuania.
Also, as Serb said that under Hitler many Lithuanians would be forced to work in SS, etc. About the same amount in fact was forced to work for analogical Soviet structures. You don't have any arguement shy Soviet Union is better than third reich (because it isn't better but worse, much worse). In Germany there was at least capitalsim, thus economy wouldn't be destroyed. And every clever/rich/powerful Lithuanian wouldn't be killed/exiled/sent to mental hospitals. That means much less Lithuanians would be killed. And yet again, no more Lithuanians would be forced to work in Hitleristic structures when were forced to work in Soviet structures.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Sonic
|
|
Vilnius, Lithuania
Dec 2001
time: 07:23
|
|
Yes, chegitz, but socialism, totalytarism, Russian supremacism still pretty much ruined it more than any money given. Most of capitalistic countries also suffered in WW2 now are very rich.
As for USA< you are maybe true but Britain didn't wanted to handle EE to Soviets. They instead tried to get as much as possible and they agreed on some pact later with SU which saved Greece and Austria I believe from Soviet influence. They also tried to save Poland, but they weren't able to do so.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Sonic
|
|
Vilnius, Lithuania
Dec 2001
time: 07:23
|
|
Bebro, it wasn't actually money, it was mostly building factories, power plants, TV towers, and other infrastructure like highways. However, most of that industry is very ineffcient and if we weren't annexed we now would have even more.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
BeBro
|
 |
of the Krauts
Mar 2000
time: 06:23
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Sonic
Bebro, it wasn't actually money, it was mostly building factories, power plants, TV towers, and other infrastructure like highways. However, most of that industry is very ineffcient and if we weren't annexed we now would have even more. |
Well, I may be wrong, but I had the impression that Sprayber´s post wasn´t only about money or any other material things, but also about immaterial things like independence, sovereignty etc...
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Sonic
|
|
Vilnius, Lithuania
Dec 2001
time: 07:23
|
|
Sprayber, there wasn't any personal freedom in USSR. Everyone who didn't agreed with regime were exiled, killed or sent to mental hospitals. Probably in Iraq there is more freedom than there were in Lithuania under Soviet rule.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
David Floyd
|
|
The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:23
|
|
quote:
David, I don’t blame you for your silliness, it’s American brainwashing machine, which made you so naive, so arrogant and so silly. You are the product of this system a product of American arrogance. Only a product of this system could believe that murder of millions of Soviet people in case of German victory over SU would be a right thing. |
Yes, people dying would have been bad, but the destruction of the Soviet state would have been good.
quote:
Only a product of this system could believe that army of his country, an army, which never saw a battles of East front scale, could win vs. the one of the most powerful and most victorious armies humanity ever saw. Just answer one single question- are you sure that Americans were ready to sacrifice… say TEN millions of AMERICAN LIVES (let’s took less then half of Russian casualties) for liberation of Europe from nazism? As for me if your casualties would grow more then 300 000 soldiers you have lost, then your population just elect a new president who promised to stop the war. |
Totally unnecessary. The US would have had total air supremacy over the continent of Europe, and strategic bombers could have flattened every single German industrial and population center, especially once the B-29s came in. Entire troop concentrations could have been carpet bombed. And that's BEFORE the atomic bomb.
quote:
One more thing Floyd. If you were so great damn world policeman, so great protector of human rights and defender of democracy, then why you waited until HITLER DECLARED WAR ON YOU? Why you done nothing to stop him until he attacked you? Perhaps you just don’t have balls, because you are country of traders who wanted to make profit on incoming war, not a country of warriors as you describe it. |
We stayed out of WW2 - quite rightly - because it did not involve us. Only problem was, FDR really wanted to get in the war, and did everything possible to aid the Allies, knowing this would provoke Hitler and the Japanese. In the end, it unfortunately worked, and quite unfortunately over 400,000 Americans died from all causes during the war.
I would have far preferred the US stay out, altogether, but once we were in the war, we should have done our damndest to make sure the Soviet Union did not gobble up more territory and more people and more resources.
|
|
| |
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:23.
Apolyton Time is 00:23. |
top of page
|
| archivepost |
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
20-10-2002 23:10
Or at lest the ones that end up taking actual power.
|