22-10-2002 08:26									#61
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Overtaking or missing an exit is not an excuse for speeding.

Please don't speed - there are families sharing the road with you.

	22-10-2002 09:10									#62
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You know what I think would be much better than speed limits? Raising the driving age to 18.

	22-10-2002 09:15									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Ming I've been pulled over often for speeding.. and out of the last four times, I've been given a pass three times for be polite and honest with them, and treating them respect...

I'll vouch for this one...The one ticket I've actually gotten was for 62 in a 45, and it was mostly because I was having a bad day and was less than polite with the officer. (In Maine, by the way, 62 in a 45 is ~$120 and 6 points...they suspend your license at 12 points.) I've been pulled over at least five other times that I can think of, including one that was really bad (103 in a 35 at 3AM) and they let me go just fine when I was nice.

	22-10-2002 09:29									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Ming If I get caught when speeding, I'm usually very polite, and more than willing to pay the fine, go to traffic school, or just take the ticket on my record. I broke the law, so I pay the price. In many cases, they are so surprised with my overall attitude, they end up not giving me a ticket...

My experience is the same

I've only had one speeding ticket in over 20 years of driving - and that was from a speed camera.

I've only been pulled over once - and that was for not replacing the rego sticker - and the cop let me off because I was polite.

I had a car full of my school buddies and we were all real polite Maybe because we didnt want the cops to search the car

	22-10-2002 09:35									#65
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It really pays off to just keep an eye open for where cops are.

At least here, they always sit in the same damn spots over and over again. And they announce Photo Radar spots on the radio.

More often or not I'll spot a car and make sure I'm going the speed limit, and other people don't notice it and keep going -- lo and behold the lights start up and away they go. Much of the time they're unmarked cars, so whenever I see a car parked on the side of the road I make sure I'm okay.

Over here the true speed limit is the posted speed limit + 15km/h (except for school/playground zones). They can still give a ticket out, but the courts have publically stated if you challenge a ticket and are 15km/h or less over the speed limit they'll throw the case out. They claim there's a backlog for tickets so the small trivial ones are a waste of time.

	22-10-2002 09:48									#66
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The true speed limit is the published speed limit

I used to drive fast - till I nearly lost my life at the age of 21 and killed my sister too when a tyre blew one fine day on the highway. The car spun out of control into oncoming traffic, narrowly missed going off a bridge and was totally written off. Fortunately we walked away from it without a scratch.

You don't get luck like that twice. All you young speeders might not get such a chance to wise up before becoming just another statistic. The worst part is you might take innocent people with you

There is nothing "cool" about speeding

	22-10-2002 09:49									#67
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I don't do it to be cool, I do it because on an 8-lane road with next to no traffic it's ridiculous to go 60 km/h.

I would hardly consider going ~75km/h dangerous. In fact it's still rather slow...

I'm used to 65mph of the US freeways.

	22-10-2002 09:55									#68
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If you blow a tyre you can lose control of your car in perfect driving conditions. Your chances of survival are directly related to the speed you are travelling at.

The same goes for surviving accidents caused by others. The speed of the cars is the major determinant of survivability.

So please, don't speed - think other of road users, who don't want to be one of these

	22-10-2002 09:56									#69
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Actually, if everyone around you is speeding, it's dangerous to go against the flow of traffic.

Thus, if everyone is going 70 mph in a 55 or 60 mph, you damn well better go 70 too.

	22-10-2002 09:58									#70
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Actually, if everyone around you is speeding, it's dangerous to go against the flow of traffic. Thus, if everyone is going 70 mph in a 55 or 60 mph, you damn well better go 70 too.

Funny how its always the youngest drivers who know best. Funny how they also make up the bulk of road deaths

Good one Floyd

	22-10-2002 10:34									#71
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quote: Funny how its always the youngest drivers who know best. Funny how they also make up the bulk of road deaths

So you're trying to tell me that if everyone around you is going 70, it's safe for you to be going 55? You might argue that it would be safer for EVERYONE to go 55, but I don't quite see how you can argue it is safer for you personally to go 55, when everyone else is going 70.

	22-10-2002 10:37									#72
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Gotta agree with David. Going 55 mi/h in 70 mi/h traffic can be pretty damn dangerous.

	22-10-2002 12:52									#73
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I'm yet to be convinced that "everyone" would be exceeding the speed limit all the time. Just sounds like a big BS excuse for speeding to me

I travel at the speed limit or depending on the driving conditions, below it. If others don't like it, they can stow it. Sometimes I exceed the speed limit - I'm not Mr Magoo

But we have speed cameras here so most people travel within the speed limit. I don't know what its like over there.

One thing about country/highway travel is you should enjoy the ride. What's your hurry? I see speeders whiz past, risking heavy fines, and then you catch up to them 5 minutes down the road. What's the point of taking the risk?

	22-10-2002 17:04									#74
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Yes, not "everyone" speeds. There's always the one old man who's going BELOW the speed limit in the fast lane.

But pretty much everyone else speeds, at least in the US. And going below the speed of the flow of traffic is far more dangerous than going with traffic - even driver's ed classes here tell you that (at least mine did).

Of course, in bad weather this never applies. It's dangerous anyway, and I'm a horrible bad weather driver (all my wrecks have been in rain or ice, I just can't deal with it very well), so I tend to get in the right lane and go as slow as possible until conditions improve.

	22-10-2002 17:07									#75
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd (all my wrecks

How old are you and how many "wrecks" have you had?

	22-10-2002 17:13									#76
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No serious ones, just a couple of fender benders and a few dings from getting rear ended.

	22-10-2002 17:14									#77
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And I'm 20.

	22-10-2002 17:24									#78
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Lots of things:

Speed traps are actually when one officer hides in a spot, and then an eighth a mile down the road or so another hides in a spot. Via radio they time cars. Doing the math, if the car arrives too early at the second officers position, they cite the driver for speeding. Setting up a speed trap is illegal, but, since the use of radar, it isn't used anymore.

It was illegal because it was your word against the officers. And there was no definitive proof.

Speeding:

No, although I myself have been speeding both times I have been pulled over for the infraction, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE SPEEDING TO BE PULLED OVER FOR SPEEDING.

I know this, because riding along with my friend one night at about 2 A.M. we were pulled over for speeding. WA state troopers have a quota system, and this was on the 29th. The officer approached the car and started yelling at us. She was trying to put us on the defensive, so we would not question her. But I did, I asked to see the radar reading, she refused 3 times. Citing, safety, I said she could handcuff me, (and another officer had shown up to back her up. I was quite polite, although I wouldn't stop staring at her because I was HOT!

Long story short, the officer didn't show up to court, and the commisioner (not judge) interrupted us so she could "tell us how it is".

To the original story, did you see those illegal road blocks in D.C. during the sniper hunt? Did you see the footage of those people being forced out of their van at gunpoint simply for driving a white mini-van. Personally talking to many people at our monthly mettings, it has been the mistakes and over-use of force by police that have driven them to be politically active.

I once used to be a conservative too. But after witnessing cases of police abuse of power, my view of the world began to change, and I went Libertarian. In fact, nothing prodded me more into becoming politically active than cops sneering, and telling me to "write my representative".

However, I now respect the police a whole lot more, they have a tough job, and they do it.

	22-10-2002 18:14									#79
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In france the speed limit on motorway is ... 150 km/h ... uh ... maybe 130km/h, but only very few driver respect this last one.

When I was young I was not driving slower than 140 km/h, generally 150km/h on a motorway. On classical road, at least 100km/h, but more generaly 110km/h.

Well, it was driving at this speed when I was in a cool mind. If I was nerveous or excited (never drunk!) I was driving a few more faster (as fast as my tiny old car could run).

Now, I'm far more respectuous of the law (never had any problem with cops, only few warnings) and do not more drive so fast.

	22-10-2002 18:22									#80
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quote: Originally posted by NeOmega Speed traps are actually when one officer hides in a spot, and then an eighth a mile down the road or so another hides in a spot. Via radio they time cars. Doing the math, if the car arrives too early at the second officers position, they cite the driver for speeding. Setting up a speed trap is illegal, but, since the use of radar, it isn't used anymore. It was illegal because it was your word against the officers. And there was no definitive proof.

First... what you describe is NOT illegal. And your reason why it was illegal is humorous, but not correct. A policemans word against yours is good enough to get you convicted in court. Unless you have a witness (and not just another passenger in your car), you lose. For offenses like illegal lane changes running red lights, and other such offenses, all the cop has to say is that he saw you do it... his/her word against yours... and you lose in court. Even today... Cops in airplanes and helicopters time the time it takes it you to travel between white lines that have been placed on the highway for just that purpose. No radar at all... but you are convicted based on their word of their timing.

And as far as your example goes... you have no proof of what you are saying... just because somebody told you "how it was"... doesn't make it true. Cops don't show up for traffic court for many different reasons, so that's not proof either.

Yes... quota systems are used in some places... but the cops I know laugh whenever anybody suggests that they need to pull over people that aren't speading to make their quota's... As they explain, many people speed, and they can make their quota anytime they want just by hanging out in the right places.

And last but not least... you don't sound like you were being "polite" in the example you give... If somebody like you was giving me that kind of crap if I was in the cops position, I would have treated you with the same lack of respect that you were showing them

	22-10-2002 18:36									#81
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With all that said and done Ming, this guy was not a good friend of mine, and I could've cared less about him paying the ticket, as he made quite a bit of money anyways, and WA state has no point system.

But, I did ask to see the radar gun. Why wouldn't she let me see it?

Also, I know for a fact he was not speeding. We were in the slow lane, with cars in front of us. We had no clue why she was even pulling us over. He drove like a grandpa. And I don't know which state you live in, but here the WSP's Union threw a fit when Washington began to implement the quota system.

BTW, after it was all said and done, she still "dropped" it from 57 to 54 in a 45..... that was nice of her..... except we weern't speeding save maybe 5 above!


Also, 11 states have laws against speed traps. Althoug I may have been wrong about what a speed trap is, (I read on it like four or five years ago.)

Last edited by NeOmega on 22-10-2002 at 18:43

	22-10-2002 18:45									#82
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quote: Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave I am glad that I don't live in US, and for that matter, this is one of the things that are BRILLIANT in UK.

Don't you believe it! I was once fined in the UK and given 3 points on my licence for no good reason. There were two villages about half a mile apart. The limit was 40mph in the villages and the road in between them. Since there was absolutely nothing in between the villages (just fields), I didn't realise the speed limit was still 40. I was stopped by a speed trap which marked me down at 48mph. There was nothing else on the road.

I was really respectful to the cop - very polite - and the **** still gave me a ticket. Looking back, I wish I had shouted abuse at the little turd. At least it would have made me feel better.

	22-10-2002 18:46									#83
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Speeding is a crime. If you're speeding and you're caught just collect your ticket and move on. I've only had one occasion where the cop had a dickhead attitude(in Sweden). Every other time the cops have been professional and I can respect that. Sometimes the've given me the ticket and sometimes I've got a warning.

I dont like the idea of being 'nice' to get out of a ticket though.

	22-10-2002 18:51									#84
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quote: Originally posted by Ming And as far as your example goes... you have no proof of what you are saying... just because somebody told you "how it was"... doesn't make it true. Cops don't show up for traffic court for many different reasons, so that's not proof either.

Yes, but when a cop doesn't show up, there is no chance for cross examination. For instance, she stated in her report that she had clocked the car in front of us. We told the commisioner she said the car in front of us was clocked at 49 mph.......

How ever, she was not there to refute that is what she said, even though I am sure she would.

I also worked with an ex-cop at the time, and she still hung out with a few, but she confirmed that there are quite a few known crooked WSP's. In fact, meet any honest cop from any state or metropolitan area, and they will tell you there are such a thing as crooked cops, even int heir own department. I know, you must know this to be so, and it is something you cannot refute.

	22-10-2002 18:52									#85
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quote: Originally posted by NeOmega BTW, after it was all said and done, she still "dropped" it from 57 to 54 in a 45..... that was nice of her..... except we weern't speeding save maybe 5 above!

Five above is still speeding Granted, most cops will not pull you over until you are more than 5 miles above the speed limit, but it is still speeding ...

Oh and by the way... cops don't have to show you the radar gun results...

I live in Illinois... and if you have any links discussing the 11 states that have "laws against speed traps" I would be interested in checking them out. Since I have been pulled over many times for speeding, I've talked to my lawyer friends on this subject, and they have never mentioned anything like that before... but then again, maybe Illinois isn't one of the states with such a law

	22-10-2002 19:01									#86
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What do crooked cops have to do with speed traps and speeding tickets?

	22-10-2002 19:01									#87
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And I don't refute that there "aren't some crooked cops"... Heck, I lived in Chicago for many years, and a 20 dollar bill stuffed behind your license when you were pulled over meant that you would get a pass in the old days... Every profession has their share of jerks and crooked offenders.

But, I also have many friends who were/are cops... and they all agree that quotas have never forced them to pull over people for speeding that aren't speeding. They all know the places where people speed, (which is just about everywhere).

In Illinois, if the cop doesn't show up for court, you get a pass if there are no other witnesses... And there are many reasons why they don't show up. So it's not proof. I've had cops tell me when being pulled over (after I have been nice to them) to just show up for court because they have assigned me a day that they don't plan on being there... I'm sure if I had been a jerk, they would have assigned me a day that they would be there

	22-10-2002 19:03									#88
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quote: Originally posted by ZoboZeWarrior In france the speed limit on motorway is ... 150 km/h ... uh ... maybe 130km/h, but only very few driver respect this last one. When I was young I was not driving slower than 140 km/h, generally 150km/h on a motorway. On classical road, at least 100km/h, but more generaly 110km/h. Well, it was driving at this speed when I was in a cool mind. If I was nerveous or excited (never drunk!) I was driving a few more faster (as fast as my tiny old car could run). Now, I'm far more respectuous of the law (never had any problem with cops, only few warnings) and do not more drive so fast.

France also has the most horrendous road death toll in Europe

	22-10-2002 19:17									#89
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quote: Originally posted by ZoboZeWarrior In france the speed limit on motorway is ... 150 km/h ... uh ... maybe 130km/h, but only very few driver respect this last one.

Where I live in France it is 120mph. And the strange thing is that the French drivers do respect it. They drive at recklessly high speeds on the small roads and then turn into pussycats when they get onto a good one. Very wierd.

	22-10-2002 19:26									#90
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Speeding isn't as common as it used to be here - mainly because you will get caught and the fines are heavy. Going to Sydney from Canberra I'll go through at least 3 speed traps and maybe spot 1 or 2. There's no point speeding.

We had a terrible road toll here a few years ago and we've got it right down so if you speed people are more likely to think you are d*ckhead and a risk to them than clever. There's been huge advertising campaigns to change people's driving habits. Attitudes have changed a lot, for the better.