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GePap
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of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Sonic
Not only Chechens, Palestinians and many others also. Re-read my previous post please for reasons, also please note that word gunmen is perhaps more "appropriate" to use for independent broadcasting stations, because that fits both opinions (ones who supports independence and ones who are against it), and if broadcasting station truly wants to remain independent in people's eyes it can't bash anything, even obviously bad things. |
Oh, don't get me wrong. I have no probem with the terms. i am not someone who wil go into a lather because people I dislike are not defined as i wish them to be defined.
Terrorism is a form of political violence, like war. its a difference in kind:
A soldier is a armed thug given a uniform and validated by a state.
A rebel is an armed thug with a uniform but no state
A guman is an armed thug, that may or may not have a uniform, and no state.
A terrorist is an armed thug that uses violence to 'scare' others into acting how they want them to act (he audience of terrorist violence is never the target of terrorist violence)
Thus a soldier, gunman, or rebel can also be a terrorist.
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Serb
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Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Sonic
However, by my description Russian army are also terrorists, because as far as I know they are also intentionally killing lots of civilians in Chechenya...
(I will probably translate and post here an interview with Chechenyan ambassador to Lithuania later) |
Yep. Do us a favor. Just when all of you who will read this bullshit and fairytales, remember about one thing- this man who calling himself an “ambassador of Chechnya” is ambassador in “government” which head is Aslan Maskhadov- the men who ordered (and he said it himself to Al-Djazira TV chanel, and terrorist inside theater confirmed that he ordered this) to attack and took civilians including children who caome to see the musical. You just saw this event on your TV. The man who ordered to do this is chief of this so-called ambassador. Their “defense minister” is Shamil Basayev who PERSONALY with his gang, took more then 500 women and JUST BORNED CHILDREN- HOSTAGES when they captured a hospital in Bunedovsk city few years ago. For this act of glorious fight against unbeliever Maskhadov awarded him by special watch. I just saw video how they laughing during award ceremony. More then 100 were killed. This “man” also ordered to blow-up several apartment buildings in Moscow, Pervomaysk and Kyizlyar. Those are their “government”.
NOW THINK TWICE CAN YOU BELIVE A SINGLE WORD OF THOSE PEOPLE OR NOT. AND HOW MUCH THIER FAIRYTALES COST.
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Pekka
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em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:23
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Of course they made the shots. No questions about it.
This is not a moral issue any more. When the team goes in, it kills. Anyone with army experience, or otherwise lots of interest on the subject knows that they can't start apprehending the 'enemy' as they counter them. Short burst to the chest. That's it.
It's a BIG risk to STOP in the middle of the raid. They have plans, and they can't take those kinds of risks of failing the mission. They go forward, not backward, no stopping. You can't stop for one person, and screw up the whole mission, it's easier and safer to have a rule not stopping. Just too much variables already.
Ok ok so you say some were unconsciouss? How do they know that? What if they're faking? What if they wake up in the second you turn your back on them and they blow their explosives on the waist? You don't have time to start strapping their wrists and take of the explosives, which might go off as they do that.
No way, too much risks, and not only for the member of the team, but for the whole team and the mission.
There were.. what 40 or 50 terrorists inside? It's difficult already, the only way to have even remote chance is to take out everyone at first sight.
It's sad but it's the only way to do it, and that's how they did it and succeeded. It was victory.
And when you enter a building, take hostages, make threats to kill them.. then you know there's going to be a team ready to kill you. You take the risk and you know it, so you have already accepted that fact.
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Ned
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of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Pekka
Of course they made the shots. No questions about it.
This is not a moral issue any more. When the team goes in, it kills. Anyone with army experience, or otherwise lots of interest on the subject knows that they can't start apprehending the 'enemy' as they counter them. Short burst to the chest. That's it.
It's a BIG risk to STOP in the middle of the raid. They have plans, and they can't take those kinds of risks of failing the mission. They go forward, not backward, no stopping. You can't stop for one person, and screw up the whole mission, it's easier and safer to have a rule not stopping. Just too much variables already.
Ok ok so you say some were unconsciouss? How do they know that? What if they're faking? What if they wake up in the second you turn your back on them and they blow their explosives on the waist? You don't have time to start strapping their wrists and take of the explosives, which might go off as they do that.
No way, too much risks, and not only for the member of the team, but for the whole team and the mission.
There were.. what 40 or 50 terrorists inside? It's difficult already, the only way to have even remote chance is to take out everyone at first sight.
It's sad but it's the only way to do it, and that's how they did it and succeeded. It was victory.
And when you enter a building, take hostages, make threats to kill them.. then you know there's going to be a team ready to kill you. You take the risk and you know it, so you have already accepted that fact. |
Pekka, This sounds entirely reasonable to me. However, put this event in Israel and you would have pro-Palestinian posters say something like this:
"First, we must understand that the cause of the "freedoms fighters' brave action at the theater is the illegal and brutal occupation of Chechnya by the Russians. The poor and hopeless Chechnians have a right to resist this illegal and brutal occupation of their lands by whatever means are necessary.
While we do not condone the killing of innocent civilians, we must also say that there would have been no one killed had the Russians simply agreed to end their illegal and brutal occupation of Chechnya. All the civilian deaths are the responsibility of the Russian government.
But finally, the Russians are clearly guilty of war crimes by first gassing into unconsciousness these brave freedom fighters and then shooting them when they didn't promptly surrender. We demand the immediate surrender of all responsible for this gross violation of human rights, up to and including that mass murderering war criminal, Putin.
And finally, our hearts go out to the mothers of these fallen Islamic martyrs. We know they are now receiving their just rewards from Allah in the hereafter."
This kind of talk may seem gross and offensive in this context. I can assure you it is gross and offensive when it is said in the context of the ME as well by pro-Palesinian posters.
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26-10-2002 21:56
and I'm not one of them of course, don't get me wrong. My sister is linguist student and she made research about Russian "mat". 
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