28-10-2002 04:08									#31
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"Notre Dame is Notre Dame."

This is no argument. ND's prestige wasn't helping them when they were double digit underdogs to FSU. It was a hinderance.

"But NC State, despite playing in a "major" conference, doesn't have that opportunity, because they don't have the same prestige."

Here you go again. Ignorance doesn't hurt us nearly as much us knowing things that just ain't so.

NC State has the 86th toughest schedule this year! That's the only reason!

But notice that the teams they played could have been good this year, just as the teams ND played could have been bad this year. In this respect, NC State had an equal chance as ND did for the national championsip at the beginning of the season.

Why does everybody here think that giving people a shot at the national title who don't deserve that shot is in any way good? It doesn't matter whether you have 2 playing for the title or 8 or 12.

	28-10-2002 04:32									#32
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You just made my case for me, Dan. Who gets to decide who "deserves" a chance at the national title? Doesn't EVERY team deserve a chance, out there on the field? Earn that chance by winning the conference, period.

	28-10-2002 04:37									#33
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Why does winning your conference prove that you deserve a chance? Going the whole season with only one loss in a super conference like the SEC or Big 12 is a hell of a lot more impressive than going undefeated in the Sun Belt or MAC...

	28-10-2002 04:41									#34
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"Who gets to decide who "deserves" a chance at the national title?"

The computer rankings, based primarily on strength of schedule.

"Doesn't EVERY team deserve a chance, out there on the field?"

Every team does have that chance in our current system.

"Earn that chance by winning the conference, period."

As Drake points out, each game should represent that "chance". Beat good teams in their house--simple as that. You're proposing the chance for a chance approach.

	28-10-2002 04:42									#35
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Yeah... however, even though a team has an easy schedule doesn't mean it's not better than one of the powerhouse teams. Until they lose, you really DON'T know...

	28-10-2002 05:11									#36
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If you play an easy schedule and don't get respect because of it, well tough noogies...

	28-10-2002 05:41									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Why does winning your conference prove that you deserve a chance? Going the whole season with only one loss in a super conference like the SEC or Big 12 is a hell of a lot more impressive than going undefeated in the Sun Belt or MAC...

Why should a team that is obviously not the best in its own conference get to play for the national title?

If I had my druthers, the playoffs in pro leagues would be limited to only division champs...

	28-10-2002 05:48									#38
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quote: Why should a team that is obviously not the best in its own conference get to play for the national title?

They shouldn't (except under the most extreme of circumstances). But neither should the Sun Belt champ.

quote: If I had my druthers, the playoffs in pro leagues would be limited to only division champs...

How would this solve anything? The NFL regular season would still be a joke. Hell, with the divisions set up as they are right now, a team hovering around .500 could still make the playoffs...

	28-10-2002 06:21									#39
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quote: Why does winning your conference prove that you deserve a chance? Going the whole season with only one loss in a super conference like the SEC or Big 12 is a hell of a lot more impressive than going undefeated in the Sun Belt or MAC...

Seeing how you love soccer, explain to me how the European Club Championships system is any different from a Guynemer's system where conference champtions play each other. In Europe, the best teams from each country go into a tourney.

	28-10-2002 06:29									#40
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The Club Championships aren't anything like a playoff because of the obvious fact that they aren't played after the regular season. The Club Championship tourneys are more like an invitational tournament in college basketball, where you get invited to attend based on your team's performance in previous years. It's like a preseason NIT that is played all throughout the regular season.

	28-10-2002 06:29									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: Why should a team that is obviously not the best in its own conference get to play for the national title? They shouldn't (except under the most extreme of circumstances). But neither should the Sun Belt champ.

Why shouldn't they? Because they aren't as good? Don't they deserve a shot at proving us wrong? Otherwise, what's the point of even being in Div I-A?

	28-10-2002 06:32									#42
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Being a Penn State Grad and seeing PSU get shafted at least 3 times when they had undefeated seasons from getting the National Title. Not only Yes, but Hell F****ing Yes!!

And I agree with the 8 team format as opposed to a 12 team format.

Rotate the bowls so that each area get the major championship game.

Bowls included in the roatation would be:

Rose
Orange
Sugar
Cotton
Fiesta

Additional 3 sites pending approval by NCAA.

	28-10-2002 06:33									#43
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Doesn't matter. There is still a championship based on records. Simply because it is played in the middle of the season has no bearing. You can't have another tournament in American football in the middle of the season.

The only different is the time of the playoff, not the playoff themselves.

	28-10-2002 06:34									#44
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quote: Why shouldn't they? Because they aren't as good? Don't they deserve a shot at proving us wrong?

You want to prove that you deserve a shot? Go to Miami or Nebraska and beat them in their house. It's as simple as that. I don't see why we should reward teams who hide out in horrible conferences...

	28-10-2002 06:37									#45
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quote: Doesn't matter. There is still a championship based on records.

It does matter. You aren't going on the current season's record, but on the record of the season before. How exactly is this like a proposed college football playoff? Under a Euro style system, Nebraska would be playing in the Champion's League even though they suck ass this year. It is nothing like a playoff, which seeks to determine that overall champion for the current year.

edit: Of course, turnover on Euros club teams isn't nearly as severe as that of US college football teams, but you are still playing with a different team than the one you qualified with. Real Madrid's acquisition of Ronaldo shows how different a team can be from the one that qualified for the Champion's League.

	28-10-2002 08:40									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: Why shouldn't they? Because they aren't as good? Don't they deserve a shot at proving us wrong? You want to prove that you deserve a shot? Go to Miami or Nebraska and beat them in their house. It's as simple as that. I don't see why we should reward teams who hide out in horrible conferences...

Every team deserves a shot. It is not for you or I to decide whether or not a conference is horrible; if the conference is in Div I-A, they deserve equal footing with the Michigans and Notre Dames. The other teams in the Big 12 and Big East have their shots against Nebraska and Miami. If they can't do it during the regular season, they don't deserve a chance to do it in the postseason. But this would give Marshall or Colorado State or Hawaii or Bowling Green a shot, too.

What the hell is wrong with seriously opening up the competition to all teams?

	28-10-2002 08:41									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten You want to prove that you deserve a shot? Go to Miami or Nebraska and beat them in their house. It's as simple as that.

And how do they do that? The Miami's and Nebraska's of the world can only play so many no conference games. In most cases, they don't like to actually play anybody good... Yeah, they do schedule one or two tough non conference games, but that makes it very difficult for some of the lesser conferences to get games with the big boys. It's not as simple as you so imply.

	28-10-2002 08:44									#48
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I gotta admit you pretty much lost me when you said that we should score college football ala European soccer. Hell, we might as well pattern it after NASCAR points scoring.

	28-10-2002 08:51									#49
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quote: And how do they do that? The Miami's and Nebraska's of the world can only play so many no conference games. In most cases, they don't like to actually play anybody good...

Nebraska is always struggling to fill its non-conference games. If Bowling Green wanted a game, I'm sure Nebraska would accept the offer rather than schedule a D-II team like McNeese State. The fact is that most mid-major teams prefer not to get their asses kicked by the powerful teams. There are exceptions, like Central Florida and Troy State, but it holds true for the most part. Why risk an undefeated record and the misguided approval of people like Guynemer by scheduling a game you know you can't win?

	28-10-2002 08:53									#50
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quote: I gotta admit you pretty much lost me when you said that we should score college football ala European soccer.

I never said that. I want to continue to work within the BCS system. A Euro style system can't work for college football.

	28-10-2002 09:01									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Why risk an undefeated record and the misguided approval of people like Guynemer by scheduling a game you know you can't win?

Because of a BIG PAY DAY at the box office.

Don't kid yourself... Nebraska doesn't "struggle" to fill their schedule... They play who they want to.

	28-10-2002 09:04									#52
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quote: Don't kid yourself... Nebraska doesn't "struggle" to fill their schedule... They play who they want to.

You're totally wrong on this. Nebraska has had to play several D-II teams in the past few years because mid-majors like TCU pulled out of their contracts at the last second. When it looks like they might have a good season, they pull out of their contract to preserve the chance at an undefeated season...

	28-10-2002 09:04									#53
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You're right. You said that we should score NFL football ala European soccer. My bad.

	28-10-2002 09:12									#54
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Yeah... Nebraska is scheduling games like TCU in the first place... they really are looking for that "tough" non conference schedule...

	28-10-2002 09:14									#55
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quote: Yeah... Nebraska is scheduling games like TCU in the first place... they really are looking for that "tough" non conference schedule...

You have to have your "money" games, especially when you schedule home & home series with Notre Dame and Penn State...

	28-10-2002 09:19									#56
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I think that an undefeated Miami left out in the cold would be good for the game. After the kvetching stopped, Miami would get the message loud and clear that they can't rely on the mediocrity of others for a national championship.

	28-10-2002 09:19									#57
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Exactly... Scheduling has to be done years in advance.
Who knows who is really going to be good or not by the time you play them. And scheduling is a near impossible task on top of that. To use strength of schedule as the one of the primary means of determining national championships is a joke at best.

So a playoff is needed to give ALL the deserving teams a chance. Again, EVERY other Major College sport has some kind of playoff system. Why not Football... Only the old fart Bowl network is keeping it from happening.
It's a disgrace... and totally unfair to most teams.

Let em play to determine who is best... just like they do for the other sports.

	28-10-2002 09:24									#58
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I don't think you have to worry too much Ming. A playoff system in college football is almost inevitable. There's too much money to be made on a playoff for it to be held off much longer. The almighty dollar will trump the best interests of college football in the long run...

	28-10-2002 09:27									#59
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Why do you say that the current system is in the best interest of College football? That's the whole point of this thread. A playoff system would be great for college football, just like March Madness is for basketball.

	28-10-2002 09:30									#60
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"There's too much money to be made on a playoff for it to be held off much longer."

How do you figure? Have a link that give details on this assumption?