27-10-2002 21:11									#1
	PTW manual Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Has anyone heard what the manual for PTW will be like? How big? Contents?

I like big, fat manuals - like Civ3's.

sboog

	27-10-2002 21:15									#2
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I doubt if it'll be as fat, as PTW is an expansion.

	27-10-2002 21:21									#3
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I think it will just be about 20-30 pages as its not like they made a new game. Unless they decide to add the information of the new civilizations into the manual.

	27-10-2002 21:53									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Yeah, they would naturally assume that you have the original manual. They would only have to put the new and changed features.

	27-10-2002 22:16									#5
	Tired of ads?

I'd welcome a simple readme.txt on the CD when this makes PTW a little bit cheaper...

	27-10-2002 22:50									#6
	Suffering from ads?

Caliban: agreed

	28-10-2002 00:16									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

it doesn't matter as in 2-3 months it will probably be largely useless and out dated like the current civ 3 manual.

	28-10-2002 19:13									#8
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Cidifer it doesn't matter as in 2-3 months it will probably be largely useless and out dated like the current civ 3 manual.

I understand is not a good move against piracy, but we should have at least a corrected .PDF file updated manual with every patch that change game rules, features or stats.

Wandering thru a paper manual and four .txt of changes (one for every patch and the PTW expansion) is not exactly really easy for me. The on-line Civilopedia is not deep and detailed enough to help with game details and advanced strategies, IMHO.

I appreciate the effort made to have Civ III help sensible to the context, but it seems to me more tailored to aid first time users that help advanced player at higher levels.

	28-10-2002 20:21									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I would like a manual as PtW has lots of changes and it would help to have proper explanations of all; the MP stuff instead of figuring out for yourself.

But yeah, they become outdated fast. A shame, because I loved having big fat manuals.

I think the civilopedia, online or not, should hold much of the things that FIRAXIS forgets to put into the manual, like chances of promotion, barbarian hut mechanisms, unit tables, basically all the stuff we come here for.

And am I the only one who felt disapointed by the lack of information about techs compared to SMAC for example? In SMAC (and civ2 if I recal) there were descriptions of the science and interesting historical facts. In civ you just get chemistry, and thats it, move on to the next. OK, not many people don't know what chemistry is, I grant you that, but you get the idea... Only the civs themselves got very detailed (and very well made too) descriptions. Not even the wonders got histrical descriptions. It seems that we are all supposed to know the history of The Great Wall, or not care.

	30-10-2002 21:29									#10
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I agree. I loved the descriptions in the original Civ and Civ2. The ones in SMAC was alright, but I liked the ones in Civ better... The historical quotes was good, though.

	31-10-2002 02:38									#11
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

The Manuel is approximately 3X6 inches and 65 pages long. Isn't a manuel in comparison to the original one. Just gives the usual heads up about installation, credits and the new material.

Cory

	31-10-2002 03:33									#12
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it is very sad for the fact that the game boxes are smaller these days.....which means smaller manuals; this only encourages pirate CDs (i know few students that do this to earn some money). Many people buy the original games at full price because of a good detailed manual.

And believe me, im the one who complains that Homm3 and Aok manuals for its incompleteness; which means that SMAC and Civ2 manuals are.......well fairly worse (less complete) i mean come on people! any game that forces u to buy "official strategy guides" for basic information (such as how war wearliness really works in case in Civ3) is a clear sign that they are putting more emphazis on marketing rather than custumer sastisfaction.

So, i hope that Ptw will at least have a more detailed manual (tip: more number charts)

I will vote by not purchasing Ptw if i hear that Ptw is bad as Civ3 was.

	31-10-2002 12:41									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Ya the box was pretty barren when I opened it. A small 'manual' and a cd not even in a jewel case, just paper like cd's you get with your motherboard.

	31-10-2002 12:58									#14
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

When you opened the box Chuckles, did you hear tumbleweed blowing by?

	31-10-2002 14:23									#15
	Support Apolyton

Cool manuals is a way to kill pirates, but another way is what blizzard does, you need an original CD if you want to play online on battle.net . seems like this is the best working way yet. That Firaxis isn't making some kind of civMP serverthingy kills their chance at catching pirates.

I can understand that the PtW CD coms in a paper envelope (civ3 had the same) because those origianl CD holders break easily and I chuck them frequently because I have all my CDs in a big ass holder. Those DVD styl cd holders, though, they are worth keeping.

	01-11-2002 03:18									#16
	PTW manual Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by CSO_Cory The Manuel is approximately 3X6 inches and 65 pages long. Isn't a manuel in comparison to the original one. Just gives the usual heads up about installation, credits and the new material. Cory

Correct number of pages.

Size is actually: 4.5" by 7.25"

Content is decent and designed for users who know Civ3.

Interestingly on p. 49 the new units summary is given but not the tech requirements.

Does this mean instead of a spearman I can build a guerilla?

-- PF

	01-11-2002 08:47									#17
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Hey Sn00py,

Ya, it was like crickets.



chirp

chirp



chirp




There wasn't even a whole pile of ads like normal. Just a one sided Intel loser.

	01-11-2002 12:56									#18
	Manual Errata Tired of ads?

That's errata, not erotica, you perv!

Tha manual states the ADM for the Numidian Mercenary (Carthage's UU) is 2.2.1. But in the game, it is actually 2.3.1, a much tougher defense in the early game. I may actually edit in the game to make the manual right. 2.3.1 means it has a bonus for both offense and defense over the spearman, and is even better than the Greek UU, the 1.3.1 hoplite.

	01-11-2002 18:18									#19
	Support Apolyton

BUT has cost of 30, which is GREAT disadvantage in early game.

	01-11-2002 18:55									#20
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When i first got it,and opened the box, i thought there was no CD inside. I started panicking and turning the box upside down and shakign it and everything, i got the cardboard out, the box was empty and still couldnt find the CD. Then after a few more seconds of frantic searching, hidden inside that secret storage compartment in the cardboard insert was the CD in a white paper sleeve. Phew!

	01-11-2002 23:08									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

The manual has Sipahi as 733, but the patch made it 833. I have not tried them yet, but that should be a killer.

	05-11-2002 04:09									#22
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by aahz_capone Cool manuals is a way to kill pirates, but another way is what blizzard does, you need an original CD if you want to play online on battle.net . seems like this is the best working way yet.

Sorry for the late reply (i dont have internet anymore). i do agree with your statement, yet there are still many gamers that are single players not MPs and this is specially true with Civ3. And Everybody knows that is relatively easy to pirate the game (for single player at least)

	05-11-2002 12:33									#23
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I miss tech chart a lot.
I still keep my Civ I and II tech charts and I wish
we had something like that in CIv III. Instead of
keyboard map I'd prefer that. Sid Meier games
always used to give some chart or map. (I still have
my pirates! map ).

	05-11-2002 19:58									#24
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Asterothe I miss tech chart a lot. I still keep my Civ I and II tech charts and I wish we had something like that in CIv III.

Once I had the same request, because organizing my tech research was a bit more difficult with tech tree interlinked as Civ II or SMAC.

Now tech tree is more linear (a bit too much IMHO, but that's another old thread), so I'm fine with on-line view.

I just would like to have an alternate view, including all the "era" in a single screen (to have a glance at all the tech) or a more interactive screen with the ability to "zoom in and out" to view the whole tree or focus only on a tech path.

Never mind, too late for any more suggestion

	04-12-2002 16:12									#25
	Put an end to popups!

Anyone's got a PDF manual?

	04-12-2002 17:50									#26
	Tired of ads?

Why would you want it unless you had a warez copy?

	04-12-2002 17:52									#27
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Even warez copies would have manual, since original has PDF manual on the CD disc too.

	04-12-2002 19:41									#28
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

It is as easy to get a maual as it is to get warez!

So long...

	04-12-2002 19:45									#29
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

There is a README.TXT on the CD. It contains these intersting notes.

Changes to the manual:
* The maintenance cost of the Stock Exchange is increased from 2 to 3.
* The operational range of the bomber has been increased from 6 to 8.
* The operational range of the stealth bomber has been increased from 8 to 12.
* Increased the Numidian Mercenary's defense attribute from 2 to 3 (now ADM 2.3.1).
* Increased the cost of the Berzerk from 60 to 70 (ADM 6.2.1, amphibious attack).
* Increase Sipahi attack from 7 to 8 and its cost from 80 to 100 (ADM 8.3.3).

I think some of you didn't know that.

	04-12-2002 22:25									#30
	Increase the size of your Attachments

The PTW manual might be good for crafting suggestive origami... you sure won't glean much knowledge about the game from it.

Technical documentation is pretty much a lost art these days, anyways. Most software companies don't bother to keep good tech writers on staff anymore, and, if they do, they usually try to offset the cost by charging you for the books they produce. Microsoft has made a science of this.

If you want to find expert documentation for the game for free, this is probably the best place to get it.