04-12-2002 21:52									#241
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Ricketyclik -- How did you set it up? When I did it, I had to open the turn 0 (initial turn); end that turn without moving the settler; send that turn to your opponent; then also open that same turn that you sent; play that turn; end that turn; and also send that turn result to your opponent.

It was the only fair way I could think of starting it up.

	05-12-2002 01:37									#242
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That was just what I did.

I can open the turn, play it and end it without problems.

And my installation is as pure as a baby-ass just washed.

I have a new pc with Win XP. Only CTP in bacis install + 1.2 us update and the 1.21 hack. No other mods have even been downloaded on this machine.

	05-12-2002 02:10									#243
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Oh... So it is just Ricketyclik that is having problems. I see. Is your installation clean, Ricketyclik? Or do you have one of those pesky mods installed.

	05-12-2002 02:57									#244
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Um... no, no mods, apart from Keygen's mod lite.

I reckon try to start again BirdMan... You or me?

If it doesn't work this time, how about a regular game?

	05-12-2002 03:42									#245
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Birdman - 89. I checked again and I have 33 cities, not 36

	05-12-2002 03:42									#246
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BC6 Turn 82 to BudgerigarBalls

One more turn to finish my first longship!

	05-12-2002 03:43									#247
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Turn 191 to Birdman. The "occupation" continues...

	05-12-2002 09:29									#248
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Turns 45 to Paulno1.

	05-12-2002 09:35									#249
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quote: Originally posted by ricketyclik Um... no, no mods, apart from Keygen's mod lite. I reckon try to start again BirdMan... You or me? If it doesn't work this time, how about a regular game?

I hope you get the Dual-Duel format working. Paulno1 and I are the only ones using right now (I think). It is most fair -- and you don't have to listen to the constant whining at the end of the game about what an "awful" starting postion they had... and that is why they lost (I won't mention any names about who would stoop to such lows -- yes I will -- LUNG!! ). This dual-duel format matches skill to skill with minimal luck.

Let me know if I can assist, Ricketyclik and Birdman.

	05-12-2002 09:59									#250
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Could you start it then Steve?

	05-12-2002 10:53									#251
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Birdman - 90
Chad - 45

	05-12-2002 11:11									#252
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quote: Originally posted by TheBirdMan Could you start it then Steve?

Sure! You both just want the standard settings? Or something else...

	05-12-2002 12:43									#253
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Just standard for me.

	05-12-2002 12:45									#254
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quote: Originally posted by quinns Sure! You both just want the standard settings? Or something else...

I'd prefer pretty much standard PBEM challenge settings, with ruins turned off. One exception, I'd rather Deity and Raging Hordes than Emperor and the other, but I'm not that bothered.

Oh, and doughnut.

All subject to TheBirdMan's approval of course

Thanks Quinns

	05-12-2002 14:07									#255
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I accept Ricketys settings.

	05-12-2002 14:23									#256
	Got spare money?

But now to something else:

Quinns and my 2nd challenge is close to an end with Quinns as winner - but again, I have learned much .

We have already taken one unpredictable factor out of the game.

Now I suggest, that the wonders should be "chained" to the ruins. Either both ruins and wonders are out or both is in.

Why, some might ask? Because in a challenge game with only 2 human players, it is not possible to catch up without being lucky.

In bove challenge Quinn got The Edison Lab, and with this, he got advances with a speed, that only a close coorporation between 2-3 humans could match.

I was able to raise my science from 660 to a little above 5300 point per turn by turning all workers - execpt those who was working on a tradegood - to scientists. And by reducing my wages to a minimum and food to the highest level.

During this change I noticed (once again) that I had been a fool. The wonder Gallileo in a 10pop city with a monopoly (5 beavers) gave alone 1260 sciencepoints with 9 workers as scientists. I could have had this for - don't know but mayby the last 45-50 turns. Oh, I could have used those.......

But back to reality: As all can see, these settings can only last 8-12 turns without hurting your civilization too much. I did get railroad, oil refining, massproduction and tankwarfare very-very quickly - but my nation (cities) was totally exhausted and I didn't have factories and money enough to stand the second and serious invasion Quinn made.

So what do you think? Should we chain the ruins and wonders together or keep is as it is now?

	05-12-2002 20:44									#257
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Birdman - 91

I think you are right, wonders must be chained with ruins. Ruins gives you a big factor of lucky to find advances, units or cities. Wonders let you make a balance between those great explorers (looking for ruins) and those who like to build a small empire.

	05-12-2002 23:07									#258
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I think we should chain the no ruins to no wonders as Birdman suggests.

I sent the turn 0 (Orange) to you Birdman, for your dual-duel game with RicketyClik. Please forward that turn to RicketyClik and play it yourself. That should start your dual-duel just fine. Standard settings, except donut world and deity (no ruins on map). Good luck!

	06-12-2002 02:14									#259
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Chad 46 - I start to build a little advantage over him.

	06-12-2002 07:51									#260
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I ditto that also about ruin and wonders either on or either off i also like the idea of dual starts in the one/one challenge

	06-12-2002 08:13									#261
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OK by me with the ruins/wonders linkage. Can you turn thenm off in PBEM, like in MP? Or do the players just agree not to use them?

	06-12-2002 19:41									#262
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The players just agree not to use wonders. That doesn't stop the a/i from building wonders though, but that rarely causes any imbalance.

	07-12-2002 01:46									#263
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OK, thanks Quinns.

I'm happy to apply this in our game BirdMan

	07-12-2002 03:23									#264
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You're welcome Ricketyclik! Have a good match!! May the best man win.

Turn 193 to Birdman.
Turn 46 to Paulno1.

	07-12-2002 13:04									#265
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All turns played - sorry for the slight delay. My wife have just had birthday (46 year, old girl ).

I DID belive, that I could "steal" ½ hour for playing yesterday before the guests arrived - but I was wrong.

Her Falconeye and the workload (I am TheMaestro in the kitchen - King in my own domain ) did I was wrong.

BTW: I surrender to Quinn.

	07-12-2002 14:21									#266
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Ah... if only I was any good at cooking...

I either take-away, or buy a pre-packed meal from my local superstore *sigh*

	07-12-2002 18:03									#267
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I am curious why not use the cheat mode in the setup to delete the ai?

	07-12-2002 18:45									#268
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Me too Birdy but 16 hours it will be till after christmas.
Dense is the only way to utilize the rabbit strategy really. It is a deffinate must in small maps and or pure land maps. Online games for sure.

I would agree with that outlook for the game it would be cool if we kept it as close the a space game as possible though. This is one of the few games I have seen where that possibility is there. Lets face it nukes are out the first person to launch them suffers big time. Then the rest follow.
I doubt I will get to start another game until well after Christmas though not enough time in a day.

A belated happy birthday to your wife

Nice to see someone else has a flare for cooking

It also seems to me wonders can be elliminated the same way as ruins? Anyone know?

	07-12-2002 21:02									#269
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quote: Originally posted by TheBirdMan BTW: I surrender to Quinn.

Good match Birdman! Thanks for playing.

The evil Spanish empire, that slaughtered American citizens to begin this war, has been defeated!!! Hurray!

Oh... and tell your wife HAPPY BIRTHDAY from America!

	07-12-2002 23:08									#270
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And now Steve, that you have won.

How many cities did you have? I did try - when I saw your facists - to get you bump against the 70-cities limit. That was (partly) why, my first defence line was relative weak.

I did try to catch you in city-limit of the facist-
government.

Believing that you could not afford to change government, when I had used the french and mexican AI as food-cities. You might have known, that for a few turns I had 50+ cities plus what I did conquer the turns just after. And I was sure, to pass 80 cities IF I ONLY SURVIVED. But I didn't .

But later. If you will give me yet another try.