08-12-2002 07:42									#271
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Birdman,
I had 72 cities at the end. I had more but I disbanded some of my smaller home cities and disbanded some of your cities that I conquered to try to stay near the Fascist 70 city limit. I had a lot of Fascists in the field, I couldn't afford to switch governments.

If you want another chance Birdman, you got it! Maybe a dual-duel format? That would even the playing field... but you had a pretty good starting position last time! If you look at our last game, I started with nothing but forests without rivers for leagues upon leagues!

Last edited by quinns on 08-12-2002 at 14:33

	08-12-2002 11:39									#272
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Waiter! A dual pls.

	08-12-2002 15:04									#273
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Of course, monsoir! Would you like that with a lemon twist?

Challenge match 24 -- quinns vs. Birdman started -- dual-duel format.

	08-12-2002 20:13									#274
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does someone have a list of the maximum city number under each government ?
i thought it was 10 for tyranny, 40 for theocracy and all governments described as 'useful for medium sized civs' and unlimited for those described as 'useful for large civs'

but apparently that isnt true.
can someone explain to me ?

	09-12-2002 00:08									#275
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quote: Originally posted by quinns Of course, monsoir! Would you like that with a lemon twist? Challenge match 24 -- quinns vs. Birdman started -- dual-duel format.

Lemon - no thank you, I say the two last drinks have been too bitter for my taste - but a piece of sugarcandy might be fine.

	09-12-2002 01:30									#276
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quote: Originally posted by Mathemagician does someone have a list of the maximum city number under each government ? i thought it was 10 for tyranny, 40 for theocracy and all governments described as 'useful for medium sized civs' and unlimited for those described as 'useful for large civs' but apparently that isnt true. can someone explain to me ?

tyr 10
anar unlimited
mon 20
rep 30
theo 40
fasc 70
comm 70
demo 80

i dont know the rest off hand...

	09-12-2002 06:03									#277
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Birdman - 93

	09-12-2002 10:13									#278
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quote: Originally posted by quinns tyr 10 anar unlimited mon 20 rep 30 theo 40 fasc 70 comm 70 demo 80 i dont know the rest off hand...

Anarchy 1000

Ecotopia 100
Multinational Rep 100
Technocracy 110
Virtual Democracy 120

	09-12-2002 16:18									#279
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quote: Originally posted by TheBirdMan Anarchy 1000 Ecotopia 100 Multinational Rep 100 Technocracy 110 Virtual Democracy 120

yeah. i found them in one of the text files, too.
thank you.
btw, is the multinational republic that one where you need space flight for ?
its called so differently in the german version ...

	09-12-2002 23:21									#280
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I think in my version it's named Corporate Republic.

Birdman - 94

	09-12-2002 23:50									#281
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right ! that fits. thank you birdie

	10-12-2002 00:15									#282
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quote: Originally posted by berXpert I think in my version it's named Corporate Republic. Birdman - 94

Long way to go dear Ber (I hope (and believe )!). But sooner or later one of the challenge games will result in a spacefight.

I do not believe, that all games will be finished in medival/modern age.

I hope those "lucky" players will write a lot when times comes.

	10-12-2002 01:34									#283
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Space in CTP? You think that is "lucky" Birdman? I don't. I played Gavrushka until that age and it wasn't the best part of the game, IMHO. A bunch of Space Fighters destroying each other in space while polluting the hell out of the planet upon launch and re-entry. Even after Gaia Controller, it was just a war of attrition. I'm sure others have different view points about this ---- but to me, the space battle in CTP is just a matter of accounting strategy-- not military strategy.

	10-12-2002 19:22									#284
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Birdman - 96

Well, in this game where I'm in north pole, found my cities on river over ice, with just 6 goods in 38 cities vs your cities found on river over forest with a lot of goods maybe it take me more time to reach your land and destroy you as usual, but if you want I can wait until I reach space ships to start the attack.

	11-12-2002 01:48									#285
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Turn 5, 6 to Birdman.

	11-12-2002 05:39									#286
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Ohhhh, poor widdle Tweety Bird got enswaved by the big, bad Powynesians, did he?

BC6 Turn 85 to GangGangGonads

	11-12-2002 08:07									#287
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Chad - 49

Mexican trops unload at Japanese territory

	11-12-2002 08:18									#288
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Good to see you back, Lung

	11-12-2002 11:56									#289
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quote: CTP is just a matter of accounting strategy-- not military strategy.

Ah yes it would appear having a space race has not been fully explored. Gary and your game was good I admit but if you saved that game you would see certain exploits were not employed.

Once into space and the first to get there offers a lot of exploits and game enders.

No nukes just goood tactics.

So what about cheat mode to end ai?
so what about a wonder fix?

we seem to be ignoring this?

	11-12-2002 12:03									#290
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quote: Originally posted by berXpert Birdman - 96 Well, in this game where I'm in north pole, found my cities on river over ice, with just 6 goods in 38 cities

Turn 99 from Ber ready to be played after work.

We both know, that trust is good, but control is better.

I can't control your information - this darned AI is not willing to gift his map to me (yet) and I am not willing to exchange with him. So can I trust you

	11-12-2002 12:31									#291
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quote: Originally posted by Lung Ohhhh, poor widdle Tweety Bird got enswaved by the big, bad Powynesians, did he? BC6 Turn 85 to GangGangGonads

Turn 86 to Lung 14 hours ago.

They tried - now their slaver is dead.

Oh, and I got into a war with the strongest nation on this world.

	11-12-2002 19:32									#292
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Turns 48 to Paulno1.
Turns 6,8 to Birdman.

Blackice, I think it is possible to do as you ask and go into cheat mode to remove the a/i from a match. Personally, I don't mind the a/i in the challenge games, though. They are usually not a force to worry about (but I guess in the birdman-lung match they are...hmmm). I guess it is up to the individuals playing to decide on this. It is just easier to go with 2 humans and 2 ai because you don't need a moderator to open the map in cheat mode to remove the a/i players. A player can just start the match without first exposing the map via cheat mode.

Regarding disabling wonders -- I don't think that is necessary. It's easy enough just to agree not to use them. If someone tries to build a wonder, the opponent will immediately see that they started a wonder on their turn, and then question it.

	11-12-2002 19:40									#293
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quote: Originally posted by blackice quote: CTP is just a matter of accounting strategy-- not military strategy. Ah yes it would appear having a space race has not been fully explored. Gary and your game was good I admit but if you saved that game you would see certain exploits were not employed. Once into space and the first to get there offers a lot of exploits and game enders. No nukes just goood tactics.

Right. That's why I ended up losing that game to Gary, after I had a huge lead!! He utilized the benefits of space much better. I just don't like the space game because I SUCK AT IT. Not enough experience in Space, I guess, so I just go for the win earlier in the game ancient, renaissance, or modern!!

	11-12-2002 20:33									#294
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Birdman - 100

Economics will be discovered next turn, Guadalajara is preparing it's most bright scientists to build a better way to exchange gold between our cities, project code "London Exchange" will be finished in 5 (or less) ... oh and Gutenberg Bible in 8.


Personal note:
I need to build as many wonders as I can before those guys want a game without wonders, that will be my end.

	12-12-2002 11:51									#295
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quote: Originally posted by berXpert Birdman - 100 Personal note: I need to build as many wonders as I can before those guys want a game without wonders, that will be my end.

No problem with me and wonders - as long as we also will use ruins . I am actually "missing" the unpredictable part of the game. Ruins are also one of the most important factors for going exploring.

	12-12-2002 16:29									#296
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yeah. what i like most about strategy games, as i probably stated several times before is to adopt to the unpredicted

c u

	12-12-2002 19:46									#297
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Adapt to the unpredictable? So you think that playing CTP without ruins leads to a very boring game because everything is so predictable? Well I totally disagree with that. CTP has 66 different types of units, 44 city improvement types, 23 different terrain types, 12 different governments, 27 tile improvement types, over 100 different advances to research, and up to 10,000 playing squares. Compared to chess -- (64 squares and 6 different types of units -- that's it) -- a player has VERY many more decisions to make each turn in CTP -- Yet chess is still very unpredictable -- and CTP is magnitudes above chess in complexity! Add to that, that a human player is opposing you with his or her own, infinitely different, strategies. Predictable?

	12-12-2002 19:52									#298
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Turns 8, 9 to Birdman.
Turns 49, 49 to Paulno1.

	12-12-2002 20:03									#299
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quote: Originally posted by quinns Adapt to the unpredictable? So you think that playing CTP without ruins leads to a very boring game because everything is so predictable? Well I totally disagree with that. CTP has 66 different types of units, 44 city improvement types, 23 different terrain types, 12 different governments, 27 tile improvement types, over 100 different advances to research, and up to 10,000 playing squares. Compared to chess -- (64 squares and 6 different types of units -- that's it) -- a player has VERY many more decisions to make each turn in CTP -- Yet chess is still very unpredictable -- and CTP is magnitudes above chess in complexity! Add to that, that a human player is opposing you with his or her own, infinitely different, strategies. Predictable?

I do NOT say, that CTP is predictable without ruins/wonders. In that case I would not be engaged in about 20 games .

But I say, the with the ruins, the games becomes MORE unpredictable.

And I DO love to play CTP with or without ruins.

	12-12-2002 20:52									#300
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quote: Originally posted by TheBirdMan I do NOT say, that CTP is predictable without ruins/wonders. In that case I would not be engaged in about 20 games . But I say, the with the ruins, the games becomes MORE unpredictable. And I DO love to play CTP with or without ruins.

Good! I also! The above rantings were directed more at Mathman and others who have gone off on this "without ruins is boring" subject several times now. I just had to say something in defense of "no ruins and no wonders".

BTW, if you play the dual-duel format you can leave the ruins and wonders in because the game is already equalized by the swap. So if you like ruins and wonders, AND you want a completely fair game -- play the dual-duel format.