01-11-2002 13:32									#1
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That's errata, not erotica, you perv!

Here is a list of differences between the manual (page 49) and the actual game concerning unit stats:

Berserk: costs 70 shields, not 60 as stated in the manual.

Sipahi: ADM is 8.3.3, not 7.3.3, and costs 100, not 80.

Numidian Mercenary: ADM is 2.3.1, not 2.2.1.

Medieval Infantry: Persians cannot build them, though the rules claim everyone can. No big deal there, as the Immortal has the same ADM of 4.2.1 and costs 10 shields less. But if you were looking forward to using the Med Inf and wanted to play the Persians, guess again!

Just some things I noticed and wanted to pass on.

	01-11-2002 15:54									#2
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Thanks Falconius. I guess these were last minute changes that didn't make it to the manual.

	01-11-2002 16:17									#3
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how come in the Great Books itll go the "glorious vikings" etc, but the Civ is called Scandinavians...?

	01-11-2002 21:28									#4
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Did they do anything with the Longbowman? If Medieval Infantry is 4.2.1 for 40 shields, a 4.1.1 unit at the same cost later on the tech tree is of course useless.

	01-11-2002 22:00									#5
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T-hawk, the Longbowmen doesn't require iron, Infantry does. Not always useful but.....

	02-11-2002 00:08									#6
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Since Persia can't build Medieval Infantry does anyone know if Persia can upgrade their Immortals straight to Guerillas given they have researched Replaceable Parts?

	02-11-2002 00:16									#7
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RTFM (that is, the README) for 1.04.
It's all in there.

	02-11-2002 08:16									#8
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Jaybe, I don't see the answer to my question in the PTW 1.04 readme

	02-11-2002 08:30									#9
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Sorry Nethog,
I was referring to Falconius' initial post. My bad.

I looked it up in the Editor: Immortals do NOT upgrade (i.e., they upgrade to Medieval Infantry which are not available to Persia).

WARNING: In the Editor, Swords were NOT given an upgrade path to Medieval Infantry, contrary to documentation.

	02-11-2002 08:30									#10
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An interesting question nethog. I just checked in the editor. The Immortal upgrades to the Med Infantry. But the Persians can't build them directly! Very strange. So the Persians can have Medieval Infantry, but only by upgrading their Immortals!

So essentially you would be paying to upgrade to a unit that has the same strength. The only value this would have is that it can then be upgraded to guerrilla.

A strange way to go about things!

	02-11-2002 08:33									#11
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Falconius, that's how an end to the upgrade path is determined: By being able to upgrade to a unit you cannot have.

	02-11-2002 08:33									#12
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Jaybe and I just posted at the same time. And we're interpreting things a little differently. Perhaps he's right and the Immortal simply doesn't upgrade. Guess the only way to find out is to play Persia!

	02-11-2002 08:36									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Jaybe Falconius, that's how an end to the upgrade path is determined: By being able to upgrade to a unit you cannot have.

Wouldn't upgrade to " none" make more sense?

And stop posting the exact same time as me!

	02-11-2002 08:45									#14
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Immortals will upgrade to Guerillas. I just checked in the editor.

	02-11-2002 08:54									#15
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WS,
Snarg!! That's not the way it was in mine (1.04)!

[EDIT] Oops! It said Medieval Infantry, which upgrades to Guerilla. I think it's time for me to shut up and get my memory refreshed. [/EDIT]

	02-11-2002 08:56									#16
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Works for me. You can't build the Med Inf (nor you want to), but I could upgrade mine to Guerillas.

	02-11-2002 09:27									#17
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With regards to the Vikings/Scandinavian thing, here's how it works (if I remember right):

Country name: Scandinavia (like France)
Adjective: Scandinavian (French)
Plural: the Vikings (the French)

So you see both in the game.

	02-11-2002 14:04									#18
	README error re bomber range Support Apolyton

In the Readme, under the Changes in v1.01f section, it states:
"The operational range of the bomber has been increased from 6 to 8."

While the range of the Stealth Fighter is increased to 8, the bomber is still 6. You will have to change it yourself, if you want

	02-11-2002 18:30									#19
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Quote by Jaybe:

quote: that's how an end to the upgrade path is determined: By being able to upgrade to a unit you cannot have.

Jaybe, I don't think this is accurate. I would like to propose a theory on the way Firaxis has defined the "upgrade chains". If you look at the editor under starting with "swordsman" and follow the upgrade specified you will see the following chain:

Swordsman (excl. Rome Persia, Celts) - upgrades to ->
Gallic Swordsman (Celts UU) - upgrades to ->
Legionary (Rome UU) - upgrades to ->
Immortals (Persian UU) - upgrades to ->
Medieval Infantry (excl. Persia) - upgrades to ->
Guerilla (all) - upgrades to -> NONE

My theory is that if the upgrade specified for a unit in the editor can't be built by that Civ then it "skips" that upgrade and goes onto the next. So this is why I have theorized that Immortals can upgrade to Guerillas, and why Swordsman should be able to upgrade to Medieval Infantry.

Using this theory I have constructed a units chart showing the upgrade paths for all of the units whit can be downloaded from my website at: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/pmm1/games/games.html

P.S. If you download this from my website be careful to download the PTW units chart (as opposed to the Civ 3 Classic units chart).

	02-11-2002 19:06									#20
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Nethog is correct in how the upgrade works.

The bomber and stealth bomber have "bombardment ranges" as opposed to the operational range listed in the readme of 8 and 12.

	02-11-2002 23:19									#21
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quote: Originally posted by WarpStorm Nethog is correct in how the upgrade works. The bomber and stealth bomber have "bombardment ranges" as opposed to the operational range listed in the readme of 8 and 12.

Re Upgrades: Yes, I had forgotten...

Re bombers: I am afraid I have you on this one. "Bombardment Range" (on my original file) are zero, with op range listed as 6 & 12 for bomber & stealth bomber.

I have it on the screen right now. If you had it in front of you while you were posting, I think I'll just go slip away and go insane.

	03-11-2002 00:04									#22
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You are right. I must have looked at the pre-patch version.

	03-11-2002 04:06									#23
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quote: Originally posted by WarpStorm Nethog is correct in how the upgrade works.

Thank you Nethog and Warpstorm for setting that straight. I was on the verge of going through all the units in the editor and making the upgrades logical, but you've shown me they already are.

And Nethog, I copied your Civ3 Unit Summary. Excellent work! You'll have to alert us when you add in the PTW units (which I assume you'll be doing).

	03-11-2002 08:58									#24
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Falconius, thanks for the compliments of the unit summary. Actually, I have already completed the Civ3 PTW unit summary and tech tree. For details please see http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=66380

	03-11-2002 11:16									#25
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Nethog why do have more than one version of some items? Like .090 and .091.

	03-11-2002 17:56									#26
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vmxa1, when I post the first release of a file I start at version 0.90 (i.e. to represent a draft or beta release). As comments come back and/or as I improve the contents I increment the version by .01 each time. After a few weeks when the content is stable, I then post it as a 1.00 release. After this point I will likely not make too many changes unless someone finds an error.

	04-11-2002 03:10									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Nethog Actually, I have already completed the Civ3 PTW unit summary and tech tree. For details please see http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=66380

Got 'em! You rule! Thanks Nethog.