06-11-2002 06:44									#1
	Starting Locations: Duels Suffering from ads?

Having given up on any crash free 3+ player playing for the moment, I've taken to duels on tiny maps (and with some success). Yet for the majority of my games, it seems that the starting locations of each player are always within 10 squares apart.

Below is an extreme victim to such an outcome - a game in which my cap (left) and his (right) with a whopping 4 tiles inbetween. Is this simply a bug?

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	06-11-2002 23:49									#2
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Not sure, Zylka. btw, how come you bailed on our duel last night? (I was plying as Milton.)

	07-11-2002 00:12									#3
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Because he's a quitter when things go bad LOL

	07-11-2002 02:16									#4
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quote: Originally posted by metalhead Not sure, Zylka. btw, how come you bailed on our duel last night? (I was plying as Milton.)

I wonder how long you'll have to wait for Zylka to answer your question...

	07-11-2002 02:19									#5
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yeah, I didn't notice him hanging around the MP lobby afterwards. He was hanging around challenging everybody, and as soon as I saw him set the game parameters, I knew what he was trying to do, and stopped his gambit easily. Then, he split

	07-11-2002 03:10									#6
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Bwahahahaha I split?!?!?! Did we even start a game together? I might have crashed, if we did - because I've only quit 1 game, and it was due to horrendous lag. Either way, why don't we arrange to play today? I'd love to teach you a lesson for your insolent tone

Last edited by Zylka on 07-11-2002 at 03:15

	07-11-2002 03:17									#7
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quote: Originally posted by metalhead as soon as I saw him set the game parameters, I knew what he was trying to do, and stopped his gambit easily. Then, he split

Sorry, I just re-read in more detail and am wondering just what the f*ck you're talking about, liar. Can I see a save of your "stopping my gambit"? Bullsh*t.

	07-11-2002 04:51									#8
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Whoo Hoo... The struting starts...

He didn't quit on me when my stack of Vet Archers popped up next to his lightly defended (compared to the attack stack) city in an elimination duel.

	07-11-2002 05:18									#9
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Yep. And NYE is the only person to beat me, out of 10 successfull duels.

	07-11-2002 05:22									#10
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Here's a nice new one:

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	07-11-2002 05:42									#11
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Those are close starts.

Have you seen any with starts further apart Zylka?

I have seen one.

	07-11-2002 06:44									#12
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Well I believe my latest duel was the furthest spaced apart yet. It's tough to pinpoint his cap on the left, I couldn't get a good shot including it because lag froze the game up

I'm going to start on wayyy larger maps and see if that makes a proportionate difference

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	07-11-2002 06:54									#13
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It's not a bug, it was this way in the original civ3 too, they just never fixed it. The map generation and player positioning is one of the worst systems I have seen in any game. But of course Firaxis will never do anything about this because they never expected MP to be successful anyways. PTW was sold for it's extra civs, not for its functionality in MP. And how many people play 1v1 in SP? Don't expect it to be fixed. And this is actually a small problem compared to alot of other things in civ3.

	07-11-2002 07:07									#14
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HappySunShine, you don't sound to happy.

But I have to disagree with you Happy, IMO, I believe PTW MP will be a raging success. The game just has some growing-pains and Firaxis is addressing those "pains" even as we type.

	07-11-2002 07:07									#15
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I have played two duels, and one both. Frist time i got lucky. Took out border city guarded with 1 spear w/archer (had 3 WC's coming also). 2nd Game, did a rush w/5 swords & 2 srchers.

	07-11-2002 07:09									#16
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I beleive the "Duel" setup of the game purposely sets up the players close together. After all, It's a DUEL!

	07-11-2002 07:16									#17
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That's because you're a complete rookie Wittlich that doesn't know what the **** he's talking about.

	07-11-2002 07:23									#18
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HappySunShine,

Lets try to keep this discussion civil, shall we?

The bottom line is this: The game is a Duel.

Basically, a duel is take 10 paces, turn and shoot.

It is NOT build a city and then search across God's half acre looking for your opponent. If this were the case, you might as well play a regular game of PTW with 2 people, no AIs and no Barbarians.

Last edited by Wittlich on 07-11-2002 at 07:35

	07-11-2002 11:15									#19
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You obviously never played civilization 2 MP. Tiny maps are close enough even if you start on opposite ends of the map since you'll still be fighting by 3000BC. However in civ3 you're fighting by the second turn of the game. Too much luck is involved when it's that early...but that doesn't really matter considering the amount of luck and random factors in civ3 is ridiculous.

	07-11-2002 11:48									#20
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I had a Tiny Map duel where I was on an island and the oppo was way over yonder on the continent.

I have also seen the 10 squares situation.

I think Firaxis will address the frequency of the 10 square duel being so common. They are listening and believe me, they will hear about it.

	07-11-2002 19:36									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Zylka Sorry, I just re-read in more detail and am wondering just what the f*ck you're talking about, liar. Can I see a save of your "stopping my gambit"? Bullsh*t.

A liar? Maybe you'll remember playing against Persia with Carthage. Your warrior wandered over and pillaged one of my squares. After I defended the rest of my tile improvements, your warrior wandered off. I started building archers, and right when I founded my 3rd city, you split. If it was due to lag or a crash, why didn't you just say that???

	07-11-2002 20:35									#22
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Easy guys....

Remember, this is a game and it's supposed to be fun. Not an ego bruising b**** fest.

	07-11-2002 20:59									#23
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HappySunShine, my point still remains that this "new" setting in PTW of a "Duel" is meant to start close together. As far as the one game the NYE played with each opponent starting at opposite ends of the map - I concider that a fluke (and granted most likely due to the luck factor in the setup).

And for your information Happy, I've been playing the Civilization series ever since the original Civilization and CivNet (which I still have)....and yes I have both Civ2MGE and Civ2TOT, but that's beside the point...

I agree with you and NYE concerning the "luck factor" which dictates where you start off, and I agree that it should probably be tweeked. But as it stands right now, I am not surprised that dueling opponents start so close together. It's supposed to be a quick, dueling type game and having the two opponents start close together does make for a quick game.

	07-11-2002 23:46									#24
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You're an idiot wittlich. I have nothing more to say to you. Learn how to play the game first then come back and talk to me.

	08-11-2002 00:14									#25
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I find it kind of curious that someone who's screenname is "Happy Sunshine" be so dark and angry.

I don't care if you think that you are the best player to have ever played the game, I don't care if your ego is larger than your unit, and I don't care if you really are a master strategist. You should have some respect for other people, period...or you may find that soon...no matter how good or bad you are...no one will play with you.

Now, in your sick twisted mind, this might mean that you are invincible, but trust me...the players here are excellent, and can step up to any challenge, but won't with you because of the type of person you are. Learn to be a bit more social, would you? Being humble in victory is far more gratifying than being shamed in defeat....

	08-11-2002 01:03									#26
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HappySunShine, do us all a favor and act your age and not your shoe-size...of course this might be one and the same, which would explain your childish
behavior ...

	08-11-2002 01:52									#27
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quote: Originally posted by metalhead A liar? Maybe you'll remember playing against Persia with Carthage. Your warrior wandered over and pillaged one of my squares. After I defended the rest of my tile improvements, your warrior wandered off. I started building archers, and right when I founded my 3rd city, you split. If it was due to lag or a crash, why didn't you just say that???

So it sounds as if I was giving you a beating before a crash. Provide the save, we'll finish it. If not, start a new duel? Your choice.

	08-11-2002 02:24									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Zylka So it sounds as if I was giving you a beating before a crash. Provide the save, we'll finish it. If not, start a new duel? Your choice.

Pillaging 1 square and then leaving hardly constitutes a beating, if you ask me. You didn't even attack!

Wait, so now you remember, and it was a crash? What happened to me being a liar? I think I'll stick to playing people that have half a brain in their heads. It might even be challenging.

	08-11-2002 02:26									#29
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What you're refering to is an educated assumption made by myself. That's ok if you don't wish to play me again though, I prefer playing people who aren't so stupid that they can't properly defend their capital improvements from a marauding warrior

	08-11-2002 02:33									#30
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I don't really care if you don't play me. Especially since MP doesn't work right now.