10-11-2002 01:22									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Lord Merciless Saddam would comply in the face of brute force, just like the average bully on a schoolyard. Sucking up to this type of person would only boost their appetite.

I'm glad you understand the reason for these demonstrations Lord Merciless.

	10-11-2002 01:23									#32
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"hundreds of thousands of Iraqis die..."

Where do you get that number? Are you pulling it out of your ass?

"Military occupation?"

The talk is 3-5 years. Long enough to redistribute power and oil revenue and to make it stick. Long enough to deal with the WMD.

"Saddam started out as an American crony."

That's oft repeated, but it isn't so. It was a mixed bag.

"and a people who has just been invaded, bombed, and occupied have very violent agendas"

Historical precedent doesn't support this assumption.

	10-11-2002 01:23									#33
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quote: Originally posted by ranskaldan A puppet regime? Saddam started out as an American crony. Leaders who know how to fawn at America also know how to appeal to their people - and a people who has just been invaded, bombed, and occupied have very violent agendas.

Actually, Bush is planning on appointing some genereal as leader of Iraq until "a democracy can be established". That really means we'll have a military tactician at the helm of a country until that country runs out of oil.

quote: The CIA Report doesn't directly say Iraq is a threat, but says it can have a nuclear weapon within a year... so why wait for the smoking gun as some leftists want? The US must and will go in and eliminate this regime.

Why wait for the smoking gun of....

North Korea, Pakistan, India, China, Burhma, Indonesia, Russia, Australia, East Timor, Poland, Germany, Norway, Finland, Denmark, Britain, South Africa, Egypt, Palestine, Libya, Israel, Spain, France, Canada, Congo (Both of them!), Japan, Brazil, Chile, Cuba, Bahamas, Jamaica, Phillipines, Taiwan.....heck, why wait for the smoking gun of the entire world?

I mean, come on. EVERY COUNTRY in the world may aquire nuclear weapons at some point....and we all know they all hate us, so they'll instantly fire! NYC may be under a mushroom cloud at any time!!! We MUST out the leaders of every country in the entire world immediately because....they're evil people. It's just that simple.

	10-11-2002 01:23									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Fez If you want to assassinate Saddam you will have to kill any imposters he might have, probably numbering in the dozens. Also the Americans invade, Saddam is killed... and the mission is accomplished. Hundreds of thousands of Iraqs won't die... that is the view of the ignorant left. WAR IS THE OPTION. Also: http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications...aq_Oct_2002.pdf The CIA Report doesn't directly say Iraq is a threat, but says it can have a nuclear weapon within a year... so why wait for the smoking gun as some leftists want? The US must and will go in and eliminate this regime.

Hundreds of thousand will probably die instead.

That's not a "leftist opinion" it is a FACT.

Last time many many thousand of Civilians died, and other thousands of soldiers.

what make you so sure that this time nobody will die.

Also do you really think that once the US troops leave the country... Saddam will not just start making his own things again?

he already did it once and he has nothing to lose.

what did last war brought to us?

NOTHING, yes ok, they liberated Kuwait... but Saddam got instead even stronger after the war.

What make you think that this time war will accomplish great things... And I don't just want opinions here... I want FACTS

Saluti

	10-11-2002 01:27									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Giovanni Wine Hundreds of thousand will probably die instead.

No.

quote: That's not a "leftist opinion" it is a FACT.

Prove it.

quote: Last time many many thousand of Civilians died, and other thousands of soldiers.

Source?

quote: what make you so sure that this time nobody will die.

People die in wars but not hundreds of thousands in this one. Iraq's Army is rusting metal.

quote: Also do you really think that once the US troops leave the country... Saddam will not just start making his own things again?

Nope because Saddam will be dead.

quote: what did last war brought to us?

Quite a dumb way of looking at the situation. The US should of gone the extra mile and killed Saddam.

quote: NOTHING, yes ok, they liberated Kuwait... but Saddam got instead even stronger after the war.

No he didn't. His army is 1/4 of what it was before the war.

quote: What make you think that this time war will accomplish great things... And I don't just want opinions here... I want FACTS

You got facts. IT WILL LIBERATE THE IRAQI PEOPLE FROM THE TYRANNY, IT WILL LIBERATE THEM FROM THE STEAL FIST OF THE DICTATOR, IT WILL LIBERATE THEM FROM THE NERVE GASES HE SO LIKES TO USE! Those are my reasons.

	10-11-2002 01:28									#36
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"That really means we'll have a military tactician at the helm of a country until that country runs out of oil."



Do you have any idea how much proven reserves that Iraq has?

	10-11-2002 01:30									#37
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quote: Originally posted by DanS "That really means we'll have a military tactician at the helm of a country until that country runs out of oil." Do you have any idea how much proven reserves that Iraq has?

Lots. I guess Iraq will be under the shadow of a US Military DIctat....I mean "self contained democracy" for a looooong time That is, until they can establish an independant democracy

	10-11-2002 01:33									#38
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Your "arguments" do not conveince anybody DanS. And everybody knows it.


Except Fez.

	10-11-2002 01:33									#39
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Tass: Lots can happen in several centuries.

	10-11-2002 01:34									#40
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Your "arguments" do not conveince anybody DanS. And everybody knows it. Except Fez.

And you, along with those protesters do not convince anybody.

	10-11-2002 01:35									#41
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Tass: Lots can happen in several centuries.

What I'm trying to say is that the US will be there for a long time, because Iraq does have quite a bit of oil. We wont leave until we can get it all.

Also fez, I found a link you may like:

http://www.thebulletin.org/issues/1...1/s91lopez.html

quote: There have been no precise estimates of civilian casualties during the war. The most intelligent guesses have been broad ranging: "5,000--15,000 Iraqi civilians died during the war, and 4,000-6,000 civilians died since the end of the war due to wounds, lack of medical care, or malnutrition," according to Greenpeace. The bitter reality is that the numbers of civilians who die in the war's broadening wake will soon dwarf the number of Iraqis, Kurds, and other refugees who died in the civil strife after March 1. And the United Nations estimated in July that 50-80 thousand infants are at risk of severe malnutrition because of the war.

	10-11-2002 01:37									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Fez No.

Opinions

quote: Source?

It's not an internet one, i'll look at one

quote: People die in wars but not hundreds of thousands in this one. Iraq's Army is rusting metal.

Do you value an Iraqi life less than an American one?

quote: Nope because Saddam will be dead.

Just like last time

quote: Quite a dumb way of looking at the situation. The US should of gone the extra mile and killed Saddam.

Learning from past experiences is the best way IMO, but that's just an opinion.

quote: No he didn't. His army is 1/4 of what it was before the war.

But the country is now fully behind him, and fully against America and the west.

quote: You got facts. IT WILL LIBERATE THE IRAQI PEOPLE FROM THE TYRANNY, IT WILL LIBERATE THEM FROM THE STEAL FIST OF THE DICTATOR, IT WILL LIBERATE THEM FROM THE NERVE GASES HE SO LIKES TO USE! Those are my reasons.

Dream on

Saluti

	10-11-2002 01:38									#43
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Also bare in mind that the financial cost of war against Iraq will be minimal for the US and will be covered within one year. (both from Iraqi oilfields captured by the US and their "allies contributions") Previous time Germany payed a large deal. No wonder they want out this time.


That's all they care about and not the civilians that will
be slaughtered of course.


I thought I should mention that since economy is a great power and can define things.

	10-11-2002 01:42									#44
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GW, prove anything you are saying. Oh I see you can't! And you just say dream on because you cannot provide any other way... you are a hopeless... and you have been brainwashed by those misled protesters.

	10-11-2002 01:44									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Fez GW, prove anything you are saying. Oh I see you can't! And you just say dream on because you cannot provide any other way... you are a hopeless... and you have been brainwashed by those misled protesters.

Fez... Your not even reading my posts! I feel soo sad....Please go back and read them and maybe even respond to them....

	10-11-2002 01:46									#46
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quote: 5,000--15,000 Iraqi civilians died during the war, and 4,000-6,000 civilians died since the end of the war due to wounds, lack of medical care, or malnutrition," according to Greenpeace.

Point taken and thrown out.

Look I don't want you to post baseless sources... backed up by Greenpeace, which I completely despise.

	10-11-2002 01:47									#47
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"Also bare in mind that the financial cost of war against Iraq will be minimal for the US and will be covered within one year."

How much will it cost?

	10-11-2002 01:49									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Fez GW, prove anything you are saying. Oh I see you can't! And you just say dream on because you cannot provide any other way... you are a hopeless... and you have been brainwashed by those misled protesters.

Sorry?

I think I didn't understand very well what you wrote.. or at least I hope you didn't mean what you wrote.

Anyway... you are doing do much bla bla bla... but what about YOU... can you prove anything of what you are saying?

Saluti

	10-11-2002 01:49									#49
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around 80 - 140 bil. dollars IIRC according to confidential state departmenmnt assesments and deutsch bank assessemnts which are now public and published in Greece.

	10-11-2002 01:51									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Fez Point taken and thrown out. Look I don't want you to post baseless sources... backed up by Greenpeace, which I completely despise.

what about this part Fez... don't just read what you want.. read it all.

-------------
And the United Nations estimated in July that 50-80 thousand infants are at risk of severe malnutrition because of the war
-------------

Saluti

	10-11-2002 01:51									#51
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Last war costed around 60 bil all of which were payed by US allies and oil fields of Kuwait. US participation in financing was minimal.


Germany's and Saudis Arabaia's and Japan's was huge.

	10-11-2002 01:51									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Giovanni Wine Sorry? I think I didn't understand very well what you wrote.. or at least I hope you didn't mean what you wrote. Anyway... you are doing do much bla bla bla... but what about YOU... can you prove anything of what you are saying? Saluti

You make absolutely no sense what-so-ever... like your beliefs... I provided the 25 page CIA source to back up my beliefs....

	10-11-2002 01:53									#53
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OK, let's say it's 80 billion dollars. Now run this through a cash flow analysis with a discount rate of 10-15%. Remember, Iraq produces only about 2 million barrells/day.

Financially speaking, this is a dog of a war. It sucks.

	10-11-2002 01:53									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Giovanni Wine what about this part Fez... don't just read what you want.. read it all. ------------- And the United Nations estimated in July that 50-80 thousand infants are at risk of severe malnutrition because of the war ------------- Saluti

That is war.

You cannot have war without people dying... that is sad, and I am not promoting war, but with a situation like this where the ignorant left cannot come up with one alternative war must occur!

	10-11-2002 01:58									#55
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quote: Originally posted by DanS OK, let's say it's 80 billion dollars. Now run this through a cash flow analysis with a discount rate of 10-15%. Remember, Iraq produces only about 2 million barrells/day.

Iraq's oil productivetuy will raise dramatcially in the event of US occupation.

Don't forget your allies contributions too.

As I said (not me - you and Germany) the financial cost will all be over in one year. and you will suffer minimal financial loss in a new war with Iraq.
Exactly like the last war.


stock market analysis about this are two fold though - about the impact on wall street.





I can only hope that your "allies" will not want to pay again. Hope they learned their lessons - the democratic ones at least.

	10-11-2002 01:59									#56
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Italian youth seriously demonstrating for a principal, Nah, unlikely. More likely just an excuse to duck something more serious and get together for a grab ass orgy.

	10-11-2002 02:01									#57
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We grab femoil ass without demos.

We are not capitalists which can only get it on with hookers (irrelevant)

	10-11-2002 02:02									#58
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When there are politically active youths... they are sometimes extremist... I was one myself for quite some time (to the right though)... that is changing as my views become less authoritarian. (I will always be a right-winger though)

	10-11-2002 02:02									#59
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"Iraq's oil productivetuy will raise dramatcially in the event of US occupation."

Just run it through the cash flow analysis. I don't think even a doubling of production would alter the analysis one bit.

"I can only hope that your "allies" will not want to pay again."

Line up who paid last time and ask yourself whether or not these folks will pay this time.

	10-11-2002 02:03									#60
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Fez, the numbers do qualify in the tens of thousands....