09-11-2002 22:58									#1
	Massive anti-war demo in Italy. Support Apolyton

Come on we have like a dozen iraq threads and nothing about this at Poly?



Here I provide the first item you fill in the rest of the info!






Demonstrators arrive from Greece in Ancona's harbor on their way to Pisa and Florence, central Italy, for the start of the four-day European Social Forum summit on Wednesday, Nov. 6, 2002. (AP Photo/Daniele Cimino)

	09-11-2002 22:59									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

15-0.

	09-11-2002 23:00									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Looks like a tenis match score

to the point please.

	09-11-2002 23:04									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

They know how war will be averted. Convince Iraq to follow the UN's demands.

	09-11-2002 23:05									#5
	Increase Your PM Length

It has.

	09-11-2002 23:07									#6
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Apparently the Security Council deemed the Iraqi effort otherwise.

	09-11-2002 23:12									#7
	Remove this text

Good thing that nothingbad happened.

Last time we hosted one of those demonstration (a couple of years ago in Genoa) it ended in a massive fight of Demos vs Military-Police

This time everything is going peacefully.

I went yerstuday in Florence to take part of the Demo.

There were a lot of people from other nationalities, it was great.

What I didn't like instead was that I was one of the few people of the political right in the demo.

Saluti

	09-11-2002 23:33									#8
	Support Apolyton

Saddam called the resolution "diabolical", so whatever these demonstrators do, war is practically certain.

	09-11-2002 23:35									#9
	Remove this text

DanS, so now the UN is all good? Iraq accepted unconditional entry of Weapon inspectors.


Giovanni, you didn't strike me as a right winger.

	09-11-2002 23:38									#10
	Increase Your PM Length

Wrong! Iraq would never comply with anything... except some communists and other leftists will believe the Iraqi Government for the 17th time that they will... but of course they will lie again and nothing will get done if we follow the ideas of the radical left.

Therefore the left must be ignored, and they are being ignored, so the war will be started.

	09-11-2002 23:45									#11
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

If Iraq does comply it will be because he knows that if he does not then he will end up like the Taliban. The only thing Saddam understands is brute force. That's why we have a full squadron of B-2 bombers, 4 carrier groups, and several thousands tanks and marines ready to back up this resolution. That, Saddam understands.

When are liberals going to understand that when you are dealing with a dictator like Saddam, appeasement is what causes war, but the threat of war is what creates peace.

	09-11-2002 23:49									#12
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by JCG [clip]....whatever these demonstrators do, war is practically certain.

At least they get their voices heard. If I lived closer, I'd definitely be there, too.

	09-11-2002 23:49									#13
	Full PM-box? Change here!

We understand that and have no respect whatsoever for sadam. but if he deos comply because of brute force threat then a war must NOT happen.


but the problem is that the US wants a war nevertheless because of oil.

	09-11-2002 23:56									#14
	Support Apolyton

quote: but the problem is that the US wants a war nevertheless because of oil.

Incorrect statement number one. The US wants peace in the region and protesting about it, wanting appeasement will create nothing but problems. The US can accomplish peace by the use of military force.

	10-11-2002 00:16									#15
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 We understand that and have no respect whatsoever for sadam. but if he does comply because of brute force threat then a war must NOT happen. but the problem is that the US wants a war nevertheless because of oil.

Believe it or not, but Bush does not want to attack Saddam just for the heck of it.

If Saddam complies then we won't have to fire a single shot! We would only have to actually attack Saddam if he fails to comply.

	10-11-2002 00:17									#16
	Full PM-box? Change here!

good word: "comply"


comply with you wanting cheap iraqi oil.

he will never do that.


and that's not cause for war and loss of innocent lives.

	10-11-2002 00:31									#17
	Support Apolyton

Wrong again. This war isn't just about oil... sure some of it is about it because Saddam has been cheating selling his cheap oil for quadruple illegaly and then buying military arms... BUT THEN AGAIN LEFTISTS IGNORE THAT FACT.

	10-11-2002 00:37									#18
	Support Apolyton

Bah.. War is simply wrong.
in any shape or form.

There are many other ways to impose Saddam the UN resolutions, war is just the easier way, but if we were really taking a close look at the situation we would surely find another way.

War never brought anything good

Saluti

	10-11-2002 00:40									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

War is wrong, and I am not promoting war. But war is necessary to establish peace. When Hitler's Armies were all over Europe... what could be done? Appeasement? Tell that to Czechslovakia. War was started to bring peace. War has brought good things besides death, it has brought peace and better governments in the countries that were previously war machines.

Many other ways? Explain these other ways... how would they work? By just saying it? "Oh, here is a restriction"... while Saddam is selling over $1 billion dollars of petroleum illegally and has violated over 16 different protocols before? I do not see any other option here except the artillery cannon and battleship.

	10-11-2002 00:41									#20
	Inflate your Upload Space

"There are many other ways to impose Saddam the UN resolutions, war is just the easier way, but if we were really taking a close look at the situation we would surely find another way."

What do you have in mind?

	10-11-2002 00:44									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Sadam is free to sell oil to whomever he wants and not to the US.

US cannot accept that and the pople cannot accept that the US cannot accept that.

That's all there is to it.
WMD is a fairy tale for small children.

	10-11-2002 00:46									#22
	Remove this text

Shut up paiktis.... Saddam is illegally selling oil to acquire military weapons... you cannot deny this...

And a leftist like you loves ignoring the facts... SADDAM HAS WMD AND HE HAS SHOWED HE IS WILLING TO USE THEM. ALL ANALYSTS SAY HE CAN HAVE A NUKE WITHIN A YEAR.

	10-11-2002 00:54									#23
	Inflate your Upload Space

Well...I'm not a real expert...

But I think that if you manage to send over there a few spyes and you strike only when and where you are sure there are military targets... or even better you manage to assasinate Saddam, and put some puppet gov't in place... it is probably 100X times harder to achieve... but it would avoid the death of several thousands of innocents and soldiers.

Last Iraqi war didn't resolve anything... why should this one do?

Saluti

	10-11-2002 00:56									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Giovanni, last war did get Kuweit (sp?) oil fields back to the US.

	10-11-2002 00:59									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

GW: So just to be clear, you advocate assassination of Hussein? If so, how would you guard against one of Saddam's sons taking power and everybody being in the same position?

	10-11-2002 01:11									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

The problem is, DS, how would you guard against that, in the event of an American invasion?

Sure, Americans invade, Saddam disappears, hundreds of thousands of Iraqis die... then what?

Military occupation? For how many years? 10? 20?

A puppet regime? Saddam started out as an American crony. Leaders who know how to fawn at America also know how to appeal to their people - and a people who has just been invaded, bombed, and occupied have very violent agendas.

In short, I'm not against war per se, as long as the end-result comes out better than the beginning. But can you ensure that?

If you can't, then the war will simply be an exercise in futile mass murder. Another Iraqi regime rises, the Arabs are alienated, and America will not go down in history well.

	10-11-2002 01:14									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

If you want to assassinate Saddam you will have to kill any imposters he might have, probably numbering in the dozens.

Also the Americans invade, Saddam is killed... and the mission is accomplished. Hundreds of thousands of Iraqs won't die... that is the view of the ignorant left. WAR IS THE OPTION.

Also:
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications...aq_Oct_2002.pdf

The CIA Report doesn't directly say Iraq is a threat, but says it can have a nuclear weapon within a year... so why wait for the smoking gun as some leftists want? The US must and will go in and eliminate this regime.

	10-11-2002 01:15									#28
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: In short, I'm not against war per se, as long as the end-result comes out better than the beginning. But can you ensure that?

The US and their spoon fed cronies don't care about assuring anything like that.

Al they want is cheap, secure oil and that's that Rask.

It's like asking the butcher wether he "feels" for the emotional distraught of his slaughtered animals, to put it lyrically. All he wants is the meat.

	10-11-2002 01:19									#29
	Increase Your PM Length

wrong again paiktis, the US only wants peace in the region and that is by the initiation of war against the madman in power you so much support, Saddam Hussein. The man is addicted to weapons of mass destriction and MURDER AND TORTURE. YOU CANNOT DENY THIS, THEREFORE USING COMMON LOGIC HE MUST BE REMOVED.

	10-11-2002 01:21									#30
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Saddam would comply in the face of brute force, just like the average bully on a schoolyard.

Sucking up to this type of person would only boost their appetite.