13-11-2002 01:26									#31
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quote: Originally posted by dejon I'm in shock here people! I can't believe this poll is tied and so many people just don't get it. We MUST have scientific independance from the AI. If we continue to buy from the AI and do not produce any research ourselves, we hurt ourselves and help them. More money for them means: - more improvements - more units - greater ease of continued research - ability to buy things from other AI civs Stop looking at the numbers people - and start thinking about the power we are handing the AI every time we buy tech.

On the other hand, we save roughly half the cost of the tech by buying it instead of researching it ourselves. If we set the slider to 60% we'd lose incredible amounts of money, whereas if we keep the slider at 0% and buy techs we SAVE money. More money that we save means:
- More scientific improvements that will give us a much better shot against the AI in research after we buy all the techs.
- Funding for more units for the war with Germany, which will paralyze the world's largest researcher and leave that position to us!

	13-11-2002 01:47									#32
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Shiber Again I propose a runoff between 0% and 60%.

Shiber, we're constitutionally required to hold a turnchat this weekend. So either the results of a runoff poll would affect the turnchat next week (after this next one) or we just just hold a run-off poll that will be a Senate Bill under the new constitution... a Senate Bill that will be a NON-BINDING SUGGESTION to the President, likely Aggie - due to the fact that hte President makes the decision under the NewCon.

Just letting you know...

	13-11-2002 01:50									#33
	Inflate your Upload Space

I'm thinking we should set the slider to 0% and buy both techs as cheaply as possible now. (Roughly 125 GPT?)

Then look and see what Industrial techs we don't have, and buy them all as well (as cheaply as possible)

With a current income of 977 GPT, we can afford to buy all the techs we are lacking now in GPT deals,

(Nationalism will probably run about 125 GPT. If they have Medicine, my guess is that will run about 90 GPT. )

If they have Steam Power, it should run about 175 GPT if they are willing to sell at all. (Steam Power sometimes gets placed on the AI's unsellable list.)

This looks somewhat expensive, but this is far less expensive than reseraching these techs. (And in addition we get them all now instead of 12+ turns from now.)

	13-11-2002 02:02									#34
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Shiber PEOPLE - look at the numbers! It would cost us roughly 2,500 lytons to research Theory of Gravity on our own, or we could buy it from Greece for 1,400 lytons. We can then take the remaining 1,100 lytons and invest them in libraries and universities!! Why do you insist on wasting so much money??

Although I was a proponent of maxing out the science slider, it was only because I thoght that we could reap the advantages of techwhoring. It's a gamble that can pay off handsomely. I voted for 0% science, I favor buying our way out of the Middle Ages. We should when possible buy from the technologically backwards civs, but buying gives us the possiblity of maxing out science when we're researching Medicine and techwhoring it and possibly other techs in the Industrial Ages

	13-11-2002 03:01									#35
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Arnelos Just letting you know...

Sure, thanks for the tip.

	13-11-2002 19:41									#36
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It's a draw.
The chat is in more than 48 hours. We still have time for a runoff poll.

	13-11-2002 20:46									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Shiber It's a draw. The chat is in more than 48 hours. We still have time for a runoff poll.

Votes are still coming in and the couple of votes for the middle ground might tilt the issue one way or the other.

If the VP wished to refine and repost a runoff for this poll, he's welcome to, But I'm not sure if that is covered by either CoL. Either way, the time gets short to the turnchat, which is about 53 hours away.

* E_T Suddenly Realizes that beause of the issues that will be looked at this upcoming turnchat, it might have a record attendance.

E_T

	13-11-2002 21:17									#38
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Oh, come on! We can't decide on such an important issue over the tip of one vote (although it's legal).

	13-11-2002 21:24									#39
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I agree, we should have a run-off pole, and quickly. Although rushed it should more accurately reflect public opinion than a 1 (or 2) vote margin in this pole.

	13-11-2002 22:33									#40
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Prediction based on current 14-1-1-0-1-3-15

Runoff would run 16 - 18 with 1 that could go either way.

Middle of the road is actually the worst of the options because with no research we can buy 2 techs now with a GPT deal, with 60% we can buy 1 tech now with a GPT deal and have the other in 4 turns. With 30% we buy 1 tech now with a reserach deal and don't get the other until 8 turns from now.

	13-11-2002 22:44									#41
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

1. That's probably why there are very few votes for the middle of the road options (none at 30%) and no one has really suggested it as a solution.
2. We can't just say "this vote will probably go here", it just doesn't work that way.
3. I'd also like to think that more people will come to their senses and decide to by the techs (0% sci)

	14-11-2002 00:14									#42
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Ok, folks, I have been arguing for 0% because that's the way the poll was stated.

My real position has always been

This turn:buy 1 tech from somebody preferably Greece or Rome mix of cash and gpt
Next Turn:buy remaining era tech from the other for mix of cash and gpt

Determine our tech situation by chating with the big 4

If Nationalism is the only one we lack, see if we can "Do it in 4" and if so gopher it!

If they have more, ... end chat and regroup.

roadcage

	14-11-2002 00:57									#43
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I'll be away for the next few days. If you decide to start a run-off poll, please add one vote for 0% in my name.
Thanks.

	14-11-2002 22:38									#44
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hi ,

the best would be to get a tech as fast as we can , every 4-6 turns a tech , maybe one or two can be traded at a later stage , the more science , the faster we get more modern armies , ......

have a nice day

	14-11-2002 23:13									#45
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The AIs have already entered the Industrial Age.

We still need 2 techs to get out of them.

It costs 50% more to reserach these techs than buy them.

Current plan if 0% wins, is to buy one of these techs this turn & and the other next turn.

If 60% wins, it takes 4 turns to get one of those techs in addition to having cost us a lot of extra money.

After we have both of those techs, then we can check to see if there are techs we can research.