13-11-2002 06:21									#1
	War Academy:Where the rubber meets the road Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Potential rubber tiles

While working on operation canyon tree, I noticed that we have a near monopoly on jungle tiles. And as we all know, or have been lead to believe by the Civolopedia, rubber appears only in native jungle tiles. So to determine if we really did have such a good thing here, I examined the oldest save I could find, around 500 bc and also 750 ad for the lost civs.

Drum roll please

Present borders:
Apolyton... >150 tiles (some already cleared so is est)
Greece...... ~ 50 tiles mostly in the salient into our core
Zululand... ~ 12 tiles(map not old, but this is reasonable est)
England....... 9 tiles (2 near Norwich rest near Oxford)
Germany...... 1 tile (sw,sw of Hamburg on our border)
All others..... absolutely nothing!

This does indeed look interesting. So lets imagine a rubber denial mimi-war strategy.

If we Pinch off the Greek salient and cleanse Oxford the numbers become:

Apolyton...>200
Zululand....~12
Greece......~10
England.......2 (near our border)
Germany......1 (on our border)
All others .... absolutely nothing!

about 89% world supply
about 93% home continent supply

I like these odds.

Humbly submitted,
Ssgt roadcage (retired)

	13-11-2002 06:26									#2
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Wow. Very interesting post, roadcage. You've just made an excellent point for an early war with Greece to take their Jungle tiles (and to think I'd ever start wanting more of the damn things ).

I'll have to put more thought into this, but you've just brought a whole new dimension into the discussion over who we attack next -- how can we aquire the most squres likely to have necessary resources?

Again, very good post!

-- adaMada

	13-11-2002 06:29									#3
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This is an excellent subject, as it would allow us to control who has Infantry and who doesn't.

	13-11-2002 06:29									#4
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I LOVE THE NAME FOR THIS THREAD

	13-11-2002 06:31									#5
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roadcage... did you check for forest tiles that have since been knocked down? Forest tiles that existed AT THE START OF THE GAME can still have rubber on them when replaceable parts is discovered, even if the forest tile is no longer there.

	13-11-2002 06:43									#6
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Arnelos roadcage... did you check for forest tiles that have since been knocked down? Forest tiles that existed AT THE START OF THE GAME can still have rubber on them when replaceable parts is discovered, even if the forest tile is no longer there.

Roadcage got the earliest sav he could find -- 500 BC -- out of concern for that issue. I'm sure people have older ones if someone wanted to try and recalculate, though I can honestly say I don't keep any saves . (You'd want the first save after we'd found all the other civilizations and traded world maps for most accuracy.) Either way, I suspect roadcage's major point remains -- the odds are already with us, and we can further affect that.

-- adaMada

EDIT: Oops! Now see the difference between forest/jungle. My mistake .

	13-11-2002 07:00									#7
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

My estimates were Jungle only. I see now that Forests should be included. While I have not had time to count them, and many civs have several, Germany still looks under supplied with Forests. The situation was too good to be true. Sorry guys, my bad.

	13-11-2002 09:38									#8
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Still, you bring up a very good point: we will likely have a lot of surplus Rubber, and we should consider who we will trade it to (and who we will try to deny Infantry).

Propping up the Aztecs in the north would be good, assuming we don't want to take their American cities. England, Germany, and Greece we should refuse to trade to (unless they have Rubber in their territory they'll eventually connect), so that we keep open the possibility of war with them.

	13-11-2002 09:42									#9
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I think supplying the Iroqouis with a portion of our soon-to-be rubber monopoly would be charitable to their cause. They've been to small too long, and could use a little grit in their teeth. Then we can send them to Rome and Moscow....

	13-11-2002 19:26									#10
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Here's a pretty old sav.

Attachment: banana of the egyptians, 925 bc.sav
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).

	13-11-2002 19:29									#11
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Excellent.
After a few conquests wars (which we plan to go to anyway) we can achieve a complete monopoly of this super-important strategic resource until the Zulu discover rubber (in any case we can conquer their rubber tiles before they can sell any rubber).
See if the Germans ever get to use their UU.

	13-11-2002 19:51									#12
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Sorry Shiber, please see my previous post this thread. I did not include forests in the analysis. (my bad)

	13-11-2002 20:09									#13
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Even considering the forest issue many of the other civs will not have Rubber (i.e. we will have a large %). We simply have to target the ones that do have it...
Controlling the worlds rubber (even if not a technical monopoly) would make a military victory very, very possible (no infantry + no tanks = no chance)

	13-11-2002 20:53									#14
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Don't sell Rubber to anyone on our contientant! Don't allow any civ that doesn't have a local supply of Rubber to upgrade Riflemen to Infentry. Even if they are are currently our friends. (Rubber is also needed for Tanks, so they same civs wouldn't be able to build them either.)

Monopolize Rubber is much as possible. Oil and Uraninum will fall into the same category.

	13-11-2002 21:13									#15
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quote: Originally posted by roadcage Sorry Shiber, please see my previous post this thread. I did not include forests in the analysis. (my bad)

Damn, I overlooked that post.
Yes, I guess the situation was too good to be true.

	13-11-2002 23:22									#16
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Amateurs. Couldnt find an old save if you sat on it.

This thread has a brand spanking new save, 3950 BC:

http://www.apolyton.net/forums/show...&threadid=60389

But to find the one you want, just search for words like 'report', or 'lost civs'. That will net you the first save from that time.

Last edited by UnOrthOdOx on 13-11-2002 at 23:37

	13-11-2002 23:36									#17
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quote: Originally posted by joncnunn Don't sell Rubber to anyone on our contientant! Don't allow any civ that doesn't have a local supply of Rubber to upgrade Riflemen to Infentry. Even if they are are currently our friends. (Rubber is also needed for Tanks, so they same civs wouldn't be able to build them either.) Monopolize Rubber is much as possible. Oil and Uraninum will fall into the same category.

Do we really even have any friends at this point? And what are the odds that we'll have ANY friends or allies once we take on Germany, Greece, England, the Aztecs...

our list of friends is diminishing because we're beginning to conquer them all before they can even try to be nice to us...

	14-11-2002 02:53									#18
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Well, it does seem like the banana is once again on our side, and besides being graced by it with an abundance of the divine yellow fruit, we will also be blessed with a never-ending supply of the black elastic thingy.

This situation calls for an embarfo on germany before a future war with our tanks against their riflemen. This can be achieved IMO, and would be most challenging and exciting to perform- Getting to replacable parts before germany- embargo on germany with all rubber suppliers besides us (if any at all )- building tanks etc. very quickly - a REAL blitz against germany with its complete anihilation - nationwide celebration with Bismarck being carried on a cart and the crowd bombards him with bananas...

What do you think?

	14-11-2002 03:26									#19
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I think Germany is currently the fastest reseracher in the game.

The only way we can have Tanks against German Riflemen is if Germany does not have access to Rubber.

(And can't Rubber come from tiles that are originally forest in addition to jungle?)

	14-11-2002 03:54									#20
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quote: Originally posted by joncnunn (And can't Rubber come from tiles that are originally forest in addition to jungle?)

Yes, as was mentioned earlier in this thread.

Still, there is hope they still don't receive any rubber at all.

	14-11-2002 06:13									#21
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Meshelic I think supplying the Iroqouis with a portion of our soon-to-be rubber monopoly would be charitable to their cause. They've been to small too long, and could use a little grit in their teeth. Then we can send them to Rome and Moscow....

No, not until we have St Regis. The Iroquois and Russians are the worlds only owners of Dye except for us.