30-11-2002 16:03									#301
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quote: Originally posted by Andydog Guys, think about what you're saying here. Nobody in their right mind is stupid enough to adopt such tactics, for precisely those reasons. Least of all a Springbok captain. In fact, this is a quote from Straeuli himself:

Straeuli is the coach. Corne Krige - the flanker - is the skipper.

quote: So I don't know where you heard that he has 'no problem with their approach to the England game', perhaps you took this out of context?

The quote was from the coach. It was from an interview after the England game where he claimed England also played dirty rugby. Which is crap. I watched the game. I'll see if I can find the quote.

quote: Sorry chaps but you haven't convinced me. I think that the boks have a tendency to get very frustrated when they are loosing to a superior side, and there is nobody there to cool the team down.

As I said, the skipper - Krige, an experienced player - is one of the worst offenders. Sorry, Andydog, I've seen them do it too often now. They were a try down against England early in the game - and the England try was against the run of play - when the Boks started it with the late smash of Wilkinson that earned the red card. And the red card came as a result of the ref's earlier constant warnings to the Boks about their play.

	30-11-2002 16:13									#302
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quote: Originally posted by Journeyman This is some discussion thread, you're still going over the Boks case! No stone unturned, eh?

If there's a stone to turn over - or even pick up and hurl at each other - we'll find it.

quote: Finbar and Havak, you both live in Australia don't you?

*Havak's bile rises somewhat*

Journeyman - Havak is a born and bred and resident Leicester man.

	01-12-2002 03:45									#303
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Results of interest to the thread:

Gloucester 25 -d- London Irish 20

Leicester Tigers 12 lost to Northampton Saints 25*

*Mmmmmm. Leicester's first home loss since 1997.

And just to complete a perfect weekend for me:

Toulouse 31 -d- Narbonne 16



Edit. Good grief. Former Wallaby Tim Horan was selected at fly-half for Saracens but had to pull out because of injury. I thought Timmy had retired.

Last edited by finbar on 01-12-2002 at 03:53

	02-12-2002 15:39									#304
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Tim is still on the books at Sarries but he has been plagued by injuries to say the least.

So the local rivals lowered our colours. It had to come but that was almost the worst team possible to do it - they will remember that for a long time. Fair play though they were the better side on the day - no complaints.

What worries me more is we were very poor. Something has gone badly wrong and it is 'acid test' time for the coach.

We shall see if he is up to it.

	02-12-2002 16:31									#305
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quote: Originally posted by Havak So the local rivals lowered our colours. It had to come but that was almost the worst team possible to do it -

Dunno about that. Imagine if the Tractor Boys had done it.

Although you did qualify your statement with "almost".

quote: What worries me more is we were very poor. Something has gone badly wrong and it is 'acid test' time for the coach. We shall see if he is up to it.

I know I went throught a list of possibilities once before, but maybe they've all worked you out now. Just as, say, everyone of any note has worked out the Wallabies. Time for a re-think.

	02-12-2002 17:26									#306
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quote: Straeuli is the coach. Corne Krige - the flanker - is the skipper.

whoops, I was actually aware of that, I meant to say 'springbok coach' and then later wrote Straeuli instead of Krige. I had it right the first time before it all crashed on me - I rushed through it the second and got things slightly mixed up.

Anyway, I do see where you are coming from. I also see how it looks. But I still can't bring myself to accept that SA are defying all logic and are teaching their team to get penalised.

On a different note, are any of us interested the Sevens? Will there be discussion about it in this thread?

	02-12-2002 22:17									#307
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quote: Originally posted by Havak If I recall there were several ex ABs in their ranks back then which probably explains how they managed a couple of tries? Those were the days when representing seven or eight countries was still acceptable. Didn’t one of the Bichops end up with Japan after already playing Samoa and NZ?

Can't remember who it was, but I remember seeing a couple of white guys in the Japanese team.

quote: That Romanian side was almost the same team that Scotland could not put away the week before they did put away the Boks. Am I arguing the Boks are now on a par with Romania? Would I? For a start Romania tackle according to the laws of the game.

I wouldn't put the Boks on par with Romania, as tempting as it is to do so. I reckon they are probably over their worst patch, and will improve in next year's Tri-nations. I can't see them beating your lot in the RWC though...

quote: I can see how it came over. But it was only ever intended as a glib comment to draw an exchange and it worked on that basis.

Yes, it worked pretty well. My kiwi patriotism kicked in fairly quickly...

quote: Strangely the only games I can remember are those two you referenced – funny that?

Thought so.

quote: Oh and the final but lets gloss over that right?

There was a final?

quote: Harder than you will ever know.

Brave lad.

quote: You are absolutely right. The positive thing I took out of it is that normally after choking that would have been it. Previous England sides would have collapsed after going 15 points down. This one dug back in. I have to say it made me immensely proud of the boys. A lot of it is down to the character of the captain of course (Finbar groans loudly).

I have to agree. They also showed a lot of character when they hung on to beat NZ. Jonno must be very inspirational.

quote: After all the stats since RWC 99 show that the ABs actually do very badly in Australia don’t they Caligastia? When was the last win there again?

Um....what? Sorry, you'll have to speak up.

	02-12-2002 22:22									#308
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Tamerlin and LDiCesares would be most welcome here, I'm sure they know that. As would you too have been welcome if I'd realised you were the armchair socialist that you are. In fact, you should get your backside down here for the RWC. And bring Mrs Havak. In further fact, I've just come home from a splendid dinner out with MOBIUS and MS MOBIUS.

My wife and I also met them when they were in NYC. How are they doing?

	03-12-2002 06:37									#309
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quote: Originally posted by Andydog Anyway, I do see where you are coming from. I also see how it looks. But I still can't bring myself to accept that SA are defying all logic and are teaching their team to get penalised.

I think they're encouraged to go out and play the rough stuff probably on the basis that it will unsettle the oppo. Whether it does or not, it's the Boks who end up suffering via the penalty count and/or cards. It does defy logic, it's suicidal, but they keep doing it.

quote: On a different note, are any of us interested the Sevens? Will there be discussion about it in this thread?

The trouble is that, here anyway, the 7s comps get next to no coverage so it's very hard to know what goes on in order to discuss it.

	03-12-2002 06:40									#310
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia My wife and I also met them when they were in NYC. How are they doing?

They're both exceedingly well. They've been here for dinner a couple of times, we've been to their place for dinner once, and we took them out last Thursday night as a sort of farewell. They're now spending about 3 weeks travelling around NSW and Victoria before they return to Sydney and head home.

	03-12-2002 16:41									#311
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quote: Although you did qualify your statement with "almost".

I’m glad that you spotted the qualifier.

quote: Time for a re-think.

Definitely. Time to kick Austin out of the ten shirt too. And sadly Kafer had a very poor game. I have a sneaking feeling he might bear the brunt of the reaction to this as it’s behind the scrum that problems are appearing and that is his responsibility these days.
Would you believe we actually had the vast majority of possession again Saturday? The forwards must be hopping mad.

quote: I can't see them beating your lot in the RWC though...

Well it’s a strange game but this would require a massive turnaround for them.

quote: Yes, it worked pretty well. My kiwi patriotism kicked in fairly quickly...

Nothing wrong with that.

quote: There was a final?

Apparently.

quote: Jonno must be very inspirational.

I am very surprised you didn’t get a red card from Finbar for this.

quote: Um....what? Sorry, you'll have to speak up.

I think it is very important for your RWC campaign that you skittle them over in the early tri-nations to break that duck?

quote: It does defy logic, it's suicidal, but they keep doing it.

The coach is in denial. He doesn’t see the problem therefore he is not the man who can correct it for them. There immediate future will contain much red I think.

	03-12-2002 20:14									#312
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Well it’s a strange game but this would require a massive turnaround for them.

Surely the only way is up for them from here...

quote: I think it is very important for your RWC campaign that you skittle them over in the early tri-nations to break that duck?

Most of the victories Australia have had over us have been very close. I reckon that NZ is sufficiently ahead of Australia to be able to beat them at home more often now.
Winning the Bledisloe Cup would be a huge boost to our RWC campaign.

	04-12-2002 04:14									#313
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quote: Originally posted by Havak And sadly Kafer had a very poor game.

He must be getting to a decent age now, I'd've thought.

quote: I have a sneaking feeling he might bear the brunt of the reaction to this as it’s behind the scrum that problems are appearing and that is his responsibility these days.

What, specifically, are the problems? Skills? Personpower? Organisation?

quote: I am very surprised you didn’t get a red card from Finbar for this.

I have a J**** filter installed. A bit like a spam filter in an email system. Whatever reference he made to J**** was automatically transferred to the Trash Folder before it could make its way onto my screen.

quote: The coach is in denial. He doesn’t see the problem therefore he is not the man who can correct it for them. There immediate future will contain much red I think.

As are the Bok authorities - from what they've said publicly - in denial. I wouldn't be surprised, though, if some behind-the-scenes negotiations started. Someone over there, at some stage, must realise that the myriad penalties and cards make it just about impossible for them to win a match. So what's the point of playing?

Hey Havak. I notice that the Scotland coach is stepping down to take an admin position. They're looking for a new coach. You quite like the Scots - or dislike them less than you dislike the Boyos - so that probably qualifies you to coach them. Feel like a couple of years in Aberdeen?

	04-12-2002 04:19									#314
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Most of the victories Australia have had over us have been very close. I reckon that NZ is sufficiently ahead of Australia to be able to beat them at home more often now. Winning the Bledisloe Cup would be a huge boost to our RWC campaign.

You're the best team going around at the moment. It's likely you still will be next season. The blooding of those young players on that NH tour was a masterstroke.

	04-12-2002 15:11									#315
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quote: He must be getting to a decent age now, I'd've thought.

31 I think? Much around the same age as Kronfeld is now.

quote: What, specifically, are the problems? Skills? Personpower? Organisation?

All of the above. The organisation was awful the last two games. Skills don’t seem as sharp as they were for some individuals. The loss of 8 players from the squad for six weeks due to internationals seems to have been catastrophic. The stand ins played superbly but when the ‘stars’ returned it seems the game plan didn’t adjust smoothly to let them back in – almost like there were two teams on the field if that makes sense.

Maybe it was an error to let so many walk straight back in?

And even though I know Healey only played Fly because Vesty got a knock the weekend before let me say again that Healey is not a natural Fly half – if they persist in playing him there we will continue to have troubles.

quote: I have a J**** filter installed

I’m thinking of having a John Howard filter installed myself.

Forgive me for saying it is typically Australian to give a sarcastic gift over a century ago and now demand it back so you can laugh even more.

I find myself in full agreement with the Yorkshire fan on BBC radio yesterday morning – “Never give them back. Because it will bug the hell out of the smug Aussie ****”.

Such passion for such a minority sport.

quote: So what's the point of playing?

I hadn’t noticed they were? You make a good point though.

I did love the Planet Rugby verdict from Bok fans. Most saw it as it was but the odd one was a tiny bit blinkered. Particularly the chap who thought your filter target went on an 80 minute rampage. He even thought that Krige did not deserve the polite warning he got just before Captain Bok declined the warning with an elbow.

quote: Feel like a couple of years in Aberdeen?

I love the Scots. But basing my decision purely on weather concerns I have to say “No thanks”.
Besides I’m too Scottish to coach them really. I like Whisky you see.

quote: You're the best team going around at the moment. It's likely you still will be next season. The blooding of those young players on that NH tour was a masterstroke.

But bringing a little more realistic perspective to it the “young players” just about coped in the forwards (no more than that –France and Wales exposed problems there after a decent showing against us) and it was your experienced backs kept you in the big game at HQ. Please remember that Wales held you close for 70 minutes and I can assure you if you were not worried by that then you should be. Ireland have destroyed Wales twice in the last few years and England don’t sweat them at all any more.

Were the RWC in the NH I would not hesitate to pick England and France (the only team whose forwards have gained the accedence over us this year). As it’s in the SH I concede NZ have to be favourite. But Australia will win it against all form books and all the odds. Mark my words. No doubt we will have Howard saying how you should keep the Webb Ellis trophy after the third win?

	04-12-2002 15:52									#316
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The boks will find a solution to their penalties problems. France has long been extremely penalized by refs, because of lack of discipline (and also because they were against us, of course ). Then came coaches like Berbizier, and now Laporte, who insisted on discipline, resulting in far fewer penalties than before. Still, it took a long while before the relevant authorities would understand the need for a coach who felt discipline was important.
The boks may have to get pitiful results out of a WRC before they realize it. I am confident, however, since if stubborn latins like Frenchmen managed to get some discipline running, then everyone else (except maybe italians and argentinans?) can.

	04-12-2002 15:54									#317
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We don't need to worry about it.

Paul Honiss is helming the England-France clash.

Our lads can safely batter the heck out of each other without worrying about him taking any action.

	04-12-2002 17:08									#318
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quote: Originally posted by Havak 31 I think? Much around the same age as Kronfeld is now.

Mmmm. Oh well, it probably can't be suggested that he's losing his pace because he was never blessed with much. He probably just put in a stinker. Some of us are human, after all.

quote: The stand ins played superbly but when the ‘stars’ returned it seems the game plan didn’t adjust smoothly to let them back in –

That's probably the answer. Bringing back people - even stars - into a settled line up can cause hiccups. It's not uncommon.

quote: Maybe it was an error to let so many walk straight back in?

There is that old adage - don't try to fix it if ain't broke. OTOH, the team would have to be performing exceptionally brilliantly without the stars - which Leicester weren't really - to justify not bringing them back. I'm talking bona fide, proven stars, of course.

The thing is, too, that Leicester have had a pretty scrappy season even with their stars in place. Multiple changes probably only further impacted on that problem.

quote: And even though I know Healey only played Fly because Vesty got a knock the weekend before let me say again that Healey is not a natural Fly half – if they persist in playing him there we will continue to have troubles.

I let the earlier, um, assessment of Austin pass without comment. I'm incapable of doing it twice in a row.

quote: I’m thinking of having a John Howard filter installed myself.

I'm thinking of finding some Lee Harvey Oswald DNA and cloning him, myself. (Which isn't, in any way, to subscribe to the Warren Report findings! )

quote: Forgive me for saying it is typically Australian to give a sarcastic gift over a century ago and now demand it back so you can laugh even more.

I wish those who are demanding its return appreciated the irony. Unfortunately it escapes them by the width of a Steve Harmison wide. Watching Mr Harmison losing his run-up for half a dozen overs on the weekend was something tragic to behold. It was true theatre of the most awful, personal kind.

quote: I find myself in full agreement with the Yorkshire fan on BBC radio yesterday morning – “Never give them back. Because it will bug the hell out of the smug Aussie ****”.

Couldn't give a sh*t, m'self.

quote: Such passion for such a minority sport.

Bring back Ray Illingworth and John Snow and things might be different.

quote: I did love the Planet Rugby verdict from Bok fans. Most saw it as it was but the odd one was a tiny bit blinkered. Particularly the chap who thought your filter target went on an 80 minute rampage. He even thought that Krige did not deserve the polite warning he got just before Captain Bok declined the warning with an elbow.

I forgot to ask - did you get to see that Sky "5 Minutes of Madness" or whatever it was called? The Krige massacre - including his own fly half? I'd love to see it.

quote: I love the Scots. But basing my decision purely on weather concerns I have to say “No thanks”.

Yeah well, an electric blanket and a supertanker full of rum - or, as I note from your thought below, Whisky - would tend to help overcome the problem, I suspect.

quote: Besides I’m too Scottish to coach them really. I like Whisky you see.

Based on some of their scorelines I've read in recent years, drunk might be a useful state in which to coach them.

quote: But bringing a little more realistic perspective to it the “young players” just about coped in the forwards (no more than that –France and Wales exposed problems there after a decent showing against us) and it was your experienced backs kept you in the big game at HQ.

I wouldn't mind having those young players - who "just about coped" at international level - as back-ups to my senior players next season. Particular if my senior players were the locks, et al, that the ABs left at home.

quote: No doubt we will have Howard saying how you should keep the Webb Ellis trophy after the third win?

No, he will be too busy finding newer, better ways to offend our Asian neighbours. Having just offended them mightily by telling them Australia will have no qualms about entering any of their countries - unasked, militarily - to deal with any terrorists that our intelligence - I use the word extremely loosely - tells us might be plotting something against Australia.

	04-12-2002 17:11									#319
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quote: Originally posted by LDiCesare The boks will find a solution to their penalties problems. France has long been extremely penalized by refs, because of lack of discipline (and also because they were against us, of course ). Then came coaches like Berbizier, and now Laporte, who insisted on discipline, resulting in far fewer penalties than before. Still, it took a long while before the relevant authorities would understand the need for a coach who felt discipline was important. The boks may have to get pitiful results out of a WRC before they realize it.

That's what I think will happen with the Boks - someone, sometime, will wake up to the pointlessness of it all. But it clearly won't be their present coach. and perhaps not even the present administration.

quote: I am confident, however, since if stubborn latins like Frenchmen managed to get some discipline running, then everyone else (except maybe italians and argentinans?) can.

	04-12-2002 18:35									#320
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quote: He probably just put in a stinker. Some of us are human, after all.

Amen to that.

quote: the team would have to be performing exceptionally brilliantly without the stars - which Leicester weren't really - to justify not bringing them back

Fair comment. I’d have shoed them back in so I can’t call Deano for doing it.

quote: The thing is, too, that Leicester have had a pretty scrappy season even with their stars in place. Multiple changes probably only further impacted on that problem.

They are now focusing on third place to win the championship. It feels wrong.

quote: I'm incapable of doing it twice in a row.

Dance away.

I can’t join you – I have to suffer watching him at fly half too often to find it funny.

quote: It was true theatre of the most awful, personal kind.

Believe it or not the embaressment of others like that tends to make me squirm on their behalf.

quote: Couldn't give a sh*t, m'self.

I think the glassware is quite pretty anyway?

quote: Bring back Ray Illingworth and John Snow and things might be different.

I think Hussain has plenty of passion for the game. Refreshing from an England captain. I heard a radio pundit at the weekend saying we have good youth systems these days but that those who show promise at Cricket also tend to be good at soccer or rugger and follow the greater money in those sports (yes even in rugger here). He may have a point.

quote: The Krige massacre - including his own fly half? I'd love to see it.

Hope they trawl it up for the tri-nations as some of it is hilarious alongside the reprehensible. Straeuli cited two specific examples of foul play by England and heck we are no angels, nor do we claim to be. Our coach even admitted stuff went off on both sides The first case was some pretty enthusiastic use of a foot in a ruck and I concede it was there or thereabouts for being too keen. He then cited the concussion Pretorious got so Barnesy ran the offending impact in slow-mo. Krige bulls at Dawson with a swinging scythe of an arm, Dawson ducks and the arm contacts Pretorious just under the chin snapping his head back and turning the lights out.

So Straeuli might need to view that one again I think.

quote: Yeah well, an electric blanket and a supertanker full of rum - or, as I note from your thought below, Whisky - would tend to help overcome the problem, I suspect.

It would help. Have you been to Edinburgh? It suffers from bitterly cold winds and they swirl around Murrayfield fit to freeze your bones.

quote: Based on some of their scorelines I've read in recent years, drunk might be a useful state in which to coach them.

He is a quality coach but it’s a hard job. Requires more headology than game theory I would suggest (maybe that’s true everywhere but the Scots need post-grad headology!)

quote: I wouldn't mind having those young players - who "just about coped" at international level - as back-ups to my senior players next season. Particular if my senior players were the locks, et al, that the ABs left at home.

I know, I know. But how could I let that pass unchallenged? Look at the tour – lost to England (the ‘freak’ keeping them closer than should have been with that jinx he has on us?), drew with France (and were very unimpressive according to the guys?), strolled past Wales but the old hands did the damage in the last ten minutes.

They may be the best side in the world but it’s close – you, France and ourselves are all there with them and I maintain only the SH location makes them clear favourites?

Plus their record in Australia recently is not good. We might not think that matters but the smallest things can get in a players head? After all we seemingly believed Lomu was a threat and despite not troubling the scorers for a while and looking thoroughly static at times he proved so to be.

quote: No, he will be too busy finding newer, better ways to offend our Asian neighbours

I did see that on the Beeb. He really fits in well with Presidents Bush and Blair doesn’t he?

Keep you eye out for the Bezier score this Sunday. If we lose again Havak will be in his cups (of wine) big time on Sunday evening (ko is 3pm French time).

	04-12-2002 21:50									#321
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quote: Originally posted by finbar You're the best team going around at the moment. It's likely you still will be next season. The blooding of those young players on that NH tour was a masterstroke.

Yeah, I have a lot more confidence in John Mitchell's abilities than his predecessor's. He certainly has long-range vision. I think NZ will have its best RWC team since 95.

quote: Originally posted by Havak But bringing a little more realistic perspective to it the “young players” just about coped in the forwards (no more than that –France and Wales exposed problems there after a decent showing against us) and it was your experienced backs kept you in the big game at HQ. Please remember that Wales held you close for 70 minutes and I can assure you if you were not worried by that then you should be. Ireland have destroyed Wales twice in the last few years and England don’t sweat them at all any more.

As this was a reply to a comment Finbar made, I'm a bit confused at your use of the words "you" and "your". Has Finbar suddenly become an All Blacks supporter, or is this a NH - SH thing?

In any case, Finbar is right about the value of those players as backups. Some of the newbies in the forward pack struggled, but don't forget, we have the likes of McCaw and Jack to remedy that...

quote: Originally posted by Havak Look at the tour – lost to England (the ‘freak’ keeping them closer than should have been with that jinx he has on us?),

Yep, our "freak" has a jinx on you, we're getting him a Jonno voodoo doll for the RWC.

quote: Originally posted by Havak They may be the best side in the world but it’s close – you, France and ourselves are all there with them and I maintain only the SH location makes them clear favourites?

NZ has a far greater range of talent to pick its team from than England at the moment. Sure, many are inexperienced, but we still have the super 12 and tri-nations to go before the RWC. I predict a NZ team to win the super 12, and for the All Blacks to win the tri-nations.

quote: Plus their record in Australia recently is not good. We might not think that matters but the smallest things can get in a players head? After all we seemingly believed Lomu was a threat and despite not troubling the scorers for a while and looking thoroughly static at times he proved so to be.

oooo headgames already eh?

If you look at things in a black and white manner, then yes, our record in Australia has not been good recently. However, we did win the tri-nations, and the Crusaders had an unbeaten Super 12. Auckland and Waikato's NPC teams also have a lot to offer the All Blacks. If the ABs can beat the Wallabies in Australia during next year's tri-nations, then any psychological barrier that may exist in the AB's head's will be negated.

	05-12-2002 12:58									#322
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quote: Originally posted by Havak They are now focusing on third place to win the championship. It feels wrong.

You mean there's a finals series in that comp? I thought you said there wasn't. Or were you referring to the Heineken comp?

quote: I think Hussain has plenty of passion for the game. Refreshing from an England captain.

I think he falls down a bit tactically. He has an unfortunate habit of changing the field serveral times an over. True, most of his bowlers are letting him down by their inability to bowl to a pattern, but constantly shifting the field doesn't help.

quote: I heard a radio pundit at the weekend saying we have good youth systems these days but that those who show promise at Cricket also tend to be good at soccer or rugger and follow the greater money in those sports (yes even in rugger here). He may have a point.

Sounds feasible. I still think a major problem lies with your major domestic comp. Far too many teams, combined with, for so long, so many players seeing it as a "job" and lingering on till their Testimonial Year. Striving for excellence was almost secondary to hanging onto a contract. Here, with so few State teams, it's succeed or you're out.

quote: So Straeuli might need to view that one again I think.

Sounds like great stuff. I'm dying to see it.

quote: It would help. Have you been to Edinburgh? It suffers from bitterly cold winds and they swirl around Murrayfield fit to freeze your bones.

Been there twice, but never in winter. Beautiful city.

quote: He is a quality coach but it’s a hard job. Requires more headology than game theory I would suggest (maybe that’s true everywhere but the Scots need post-grad headology!)

Dust off your PhD and pop up there.

quote: They may be the best side in the world but it’s close – you, France and ourselves are all there with them and I maintain only the SH location makes them clear favourites?

It's hard to know where the Wallabies will stand next season. There will be certainly be new young faces - Kefu Jnr definitely in the centres - and a fit Matt Rogers, a fit Ben Tune (but for how long?), and even Joe Roff (if he's still up to it). We will also, hopefully, have the Nathan Sharpes, et al, back and fighting fit. I have my fingers crossed at best. My utter admiration for the ABs is obviously based on a degree of anticipation - slot the class players who missed the NH tour back into the team that played on the NH tour and the combination is formidable.

quote: Plus their record in Australia recently is not good.

I think the head enters into it only to a certain extent. Sure, we narrowly pipped them the last few times. In other years, when they've had a better team, they've rolled us. Conversely, when we had the better team, we've rolled them.

quote: After all we seemingly believed Lomu was a threat and despite not troubling the scorers for a while and looking thoroughly static at times he proved so to be.

And, more than likely, he will never score another try in his life.

*Havak wakes screaming in the night*

quote: Keep you eye out for the Bezier score this Sunday. If we lose again Havak will be in his cups (of wine) big time on Sunday evening (ko is 3pm French time).

If I see you using the subjunctive tense in a post, I'll know you're p*ssed - hence you lost.

	05-12-2002 15:19									#323
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quote: Yeah, I have a lot more confidence in John Mitchell's abilities than his predecessor's

Well he did learn the trade at the feet of the best.

quote: Has Finbar suddenly become an All Blacks supporter, or is this a NH - SH thing?

Well I can hardly admit I got confused or made a mistake now can I? So clearly an NH-SH thing.

quote: we have the likes of McCaw and Jack to remedy that...

Super players without a doubt. As are our back five of course. How keenly was their absence felt I wonder? Outside the last 20 your forwards were firmly on the back foot and I don’t think either player really faced that in the tri-nations. It’s an intriguing if pointless ‘what if’.

Still the Moody-McCaw and Kay-Jack clash would have been great for rugger would it not?

quote: Yep, our "freak" has a jinx on you, we're getting him a Jonno voodoo doll for the RWC.

There are so many out there it’s a wonder he isn’t a pin cushion.

All things going to plan now we shouldn’t meet you in the QF and there is a very real chance of you meeting France before us. Now that would be a match to savour?

quote: NZ has a far greater range of talent to pick its team from than England at the moment

You would be surprised I suspect. Certainly in terms of the front eight we have far more options. I suspect we have more options in the back seven too, just not the same quality there. Don’t forget comparative player rosters – ours is much larger. There’s a core of nearly 60 players involved with the full England setup (10 or so in the Academy including young Oliver Smith who I think will mature into the intelligent centre we badly need). If they wanted they could expend even that.

quote: I predict a NZ team to win the super 12, and for the All Blacks to win the tri-nations.

I can’t disagree with that although I would say you cannot count out them tricky Wallaby types!?

quote: oooo headgames already eh?

Getting them started nice and early yes.

And it’s a big IF you suggested. I think it is crucial you turn them over in their backyard before the RWC to be honest – or I’ll make them clear favourites for RWC.

quote: You mean there's a finals series in that comp? I thought you said there wasn't. Or were you referring to the Heineken comp?

Heineken has a league stage (happening now) followed by an elimination phase very much on the model of RWC. The English Premiership used to be top of the table wins but then also had a top eight play off for a separate trophy.

This year the premiership has a new system. Top team after the league stage goes straight into the Championship final at twickers. Places 2 and 3 play each other for the right to meet them. Whoever wins the play off final is for the first time the “Champion” club of England.

All of which means that we still have a realistic chance of winning the title.

quote: I think he falls down a bit tactically. He has an unfortunate habit of changing the field several times an over. True, most of his bowlers are letting him down by their inability to bowl to a pattern, but constantly shifting the field doesn't help.

He does draw media flack for that very thing. I’m really not qualified to comment of it though. My experience of watching cricket has always been more ‘fluidly social’ than ‘informed’ shall we say. He has the passion though – and that is rare enough – remember Gooch?

quote: Far too many teams, combined with, for so long, so many players seeing it as a "job" and lingering on till their Testimonial Year

I’m sure you are right. They hoped splitting the top league would help but it clearly hasn’t. It’s certainly true there are some very mediocre players trundling through county cricket and in their forties.

quote: Sounds like great stuff. I'm dying to see it.

It’s everything you have heard. Truly astounding stuff with three players floored in five seconds. It’s totally indefensible in fact.

Edinburgh is beautiful but it can be very dark and depressing in wind and rain. Great bars though.

Now where did I put that PhD certificate for headology…

quote: slot the class players who missed the NH tour back into the team that played on the NH tour and the combination is formidable.

On the face of it. Just like slotting seven England players back in the Tigers 22 makes us formidable. You see my point? That’s what makes this game so wonderful – the next time the ABs or England run out they might put in a shocker (Tamerlin certainly hopes so in our case).

quote: when they've had a better team, they've rolled us. Conversely, when we had the better team, we've rolled them.

All of which means I am really looking forward to the next tri-nations already.

quote: And, more than likely, he will never score another try in his life. *Havak wakes screaming in the night*

You don’t know the half of it.

Howlett you could see was pure class – the best (fit) speed merchant in the world. Lomu looked out of place, static and ungainly and yet scored two tries. What is going on?

quote: If I see you using the subjunctive tense in a post, I'll know you're p*ssed - hence you lost.

After today I’m not back near a PC until Tuesday. But your point may still hold as I may not be sober.

By the way I had to look subjunctive up and I’m still not sure I have a grasp on it

	05-12-2002 18:36									#324
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quote: Originally posted by Havak This year the premiership has a new system. Top team after the league stage goes straight into the Championship final at twickers. Places 2 and 3 play each other for the right to meet them. Whoever wins the play off final is for the first time the “Champion” club of England.

Gee. Leeds. Fancy that.

quote: He has the passion though – and that is rare enough – remember Gooch?

Indeed. He who shares hair-replacement TV ads with your failure of a fly half at Leicester.

quote: I’m sure you are right. They hoped splitting the top league would help but it clearly hasn’t.

It did nothing except create two leagues with the better players in one, the lesser in the other, so any thought of improving by playing against better players goes out the window. They should cut the number of teams in half and increase the competition and desire. Of course, given the ultra conservatism of the bods in charge, that will never happen.

quote: Edinburgh is beautiful but it can be very dark and depressing in wind and rain. Great bars though. Now where did I put that PhD certificate for headology…

Left it in a dunny in an Edinburgh bar, presumably.

quote: On the face of it. Just like slotting seven England players back in the Tigers 22 makes us formidable. You see my point?

One of the longer bows you've drawn in this archery competition.

quote: By the way I had to look subjunctive up and I’m still not sure I have a grasp on it

Yeah, I had to nominate one of the harder tenses (or moods) to define. Without delving into the arcane world of principal clauses of complex sentences, and subordinate clauses, et al - mainly because I can't remember most of the detail - its best known use is to denote something imagined or wished. The classic example is the song title - "If I Were A Rich Man". "Were" is the subjunctive tense, used because it's preceded by "If", meaning wealth is being imagined.

Apart from that, "subjunctive", itself, is just such a rich, wonderful word.

	05-12-2002 19:39									#325
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Super players without a doubt. As are our back five of course. How keenly was their absence felt I wonder? Outside the last 20 your forwards were firmly on the back foot and I don’t think either player really faced that in the tri-nations. It’s an intriguing if pointless ‘what if’.

Perhaps the reason they never faced that in the tri-nations is because they are just too damn good to let that happen. Also, if you consider that we were on the back foot until the last 20 minutes, then the fact that we only lost by a couple of points shows the depth and character of this All Black team.

quote: Still the Moody-McCaw and Kay-Jack clash would have been great for rugger would it not?

For sure. Unfortunately we have to wait another 10 months or so to see it...

quote: All things going to plan now we shouldn’t meet you in the QF and there is a very real chance of you meeting France before us. Now that would be a match to savour?

Here are my predictions for the RWC:

NZ, England, France and Australia will finish at the top of their pools

NZ beat SA in quarter final 1

Australia beat Scotland in quarter final 2

France beat Ireland in quarter final 3

England beat Wales in quarter final 4

NZ beat Australia in semi final 1

England beat France in semi final 2

NZ beat England in the final



What do you guys predict?

	05-12-2002 21:20									#326
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Same final - reverse result?

Ran out of time today (work eh?)

Catch up with everyone Tuesday.

Tour time

	05-12-2002 22:33									#327
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You got England-France result wrong, and, of course, France will win the final

Seriously, the only surprises could come from Argentina-Ireland (that one will be an interesting match - I think the Irish will want to prove something), Scotland-Fiji and maybe Wales-Canada. The quarter finals seem quite decided otherwise.
That is, unless Romania tramples Australia and finishes second of pool A after Namibia... Or, if finbar finds some magic way to get the Italians beat the ABs.

	06-12-2002 02:18									#328
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quote: Originally posted by LDiCesare Or, if finbar finds some magic way to get the Italians beat the ABs.

*finbar starts to mix a magic potion*

	07-12-2002 16:47									#329
	Hemisphere Wars : Tamerlin Strikes Back Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Hi everybody,

At last I'am back on the Internet, I won't have the time to read all the posts I have missed until tonight but I'am really happy to be back here.

The Stade Toulousain is playing against Edinburgh today...

Last edited by Tamerlin on 07-12-2002 at 22:58

	07-12-2002 23:02									#330
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Correction : the Stade Toulousain has won away from home against Edinburgh after a "little" game we won't recall long after this week-end.

The players will have to raise their play level if they want the team to win this H-Cup. Only Vincent Clerc has played near its real level...