19-11-2002 00:03									#1
	Procedures for GS Increase Your PM Length

This is a thread devoted to procedures to be followed by GS.

I personally don't think that we need to have many firm procedures in place, as I think and hope we will work most matters out without needing rules.

That said, I think we need to discuss:

1. Election procedures: can we vote in any school, including those we don't belong to? What is the length of the term, start and end dates for the term?

2. Should the executive positions (Pres, vice, vice-vice) be limited to those who have PTW, as they are the people who actually play the game (does not include the ministers). If so we should create a list of those who have PTW and those who will get it and when.

3. Impeachment (from DeepO): What offenses are considered impeachable offenses? How many votes required? Should we worry about this later when (if) the question arises?

4. (edit:added) Should we close the group to new members? If not now, when or at what threshold? There is at least one post in the GS thread of someone looking to join a group, it would be good if we could tell him definatively that we are closed or open.

If there are other procedural matters to be discussed, please raise them here as well.


We should only discuss the items in this thread for a few days, as elections need to be held soon.

Last edited by asleepathewheel on 19-11-2002 at 00:09

	19-11-2002 00:24									#2
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my opinions:

1. All schools allowed, but your own schools preferred. This because people who didn't join a school will likely follow some of the discussions anyway, and can have a better idea as an outsider. OTOH, people who are not that close should vote on something they don't know about.

2. I'd say naturally the players should be those that have PTW, however we should have some kind of consensus as to who is allowed to see the game. I'd like to take a look at the current save as well, if this is possible without disrupting play, not because I want to play myself, but a save can be much more informative than some screenies.
But, I don't like to do this allways, and I certainly don't want to be forced to see each turn, after all the players play, the rest advices / decides. They should have some freedom here...

3. No idea. Is bad play, or a not-very-subtle mistake a reason for impeachment? If players are caught cheating, impeachment would be automatic, and I guess it will be unanimous then. Other reasons... no idea...

4. This is certainly not my call, and I won't comment on whether we need to close the group, but there are two things in respect to the one who asked to join:
1) he needs an answer soon, as this is not very polite to him. If NYE would post a 'this is now being discussed' it would give us some time, no matter the outcome of the close / not close debate.
2) He wants to join, but unlike the 'ringers' (I still love the term ) no-one knows him, I guess. So perhaps some more explanation from him would be welcome: why he likes our team, what he wants to do here, his Civ3 CV, etc. We (the newest members) were accepted without anyone asking any more info, but at least a few of the older members knew us. This is not true for the applicant...

DeepO

	19-11-2002 00:58									#3
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1.
a. Anything that is important enough to hold an actual pole over should probably be voted on by everyone. Most small maters that might be inappropriate for people not intimately involved in what’s going on in that schola to vote on will probably just be discussed.
b. I say about 1 month, seems like a good balance IMO

2. Makes sense, it would certainly be preferable. I think most if not all of us will have it eventually.

3. Let’s hope this isn’t necessary. Maybe common sense will work on this one.

4. Alright I’m going to be the bastard and say no more members unless there’s a reason (and bring those reasons up soon). A coherent team is important; we need to learn how to work together efficiently to make the best decisions in the best way by the deadline. If we want to leave a little more time for people to sign up then fine, but we need to close it at some point. We also don’t want a pile of “sort of” members; we don’t want 10-12 of us to seriously contemplate and vote on something only to have the poll thrown off by 4-5 people who cast an ill-educated vote after reading a quarter of the posts and considering it for 30 seconds.

	19-11-2002 02:20									#4
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I say 3 months for term length. That way, each administration may actually be in office long enough to DO something.

It has the added bonus of cutting down on the frequency of elections.

-Arrian

	19-11-2002 02:22									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian I say 3 months for term length. That way, each administration may actually be in office long enough to DO something. It has the added bonus of cutting down on the frequency of elections. -Arrian

Yeah, that 6 turns or so a month is pretty short. I think we do need more continuity than 6 turns would afford.

	19-11-2002 02:29									#6
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I would certainly hope that not all teams need a day to commit a turn, certainly in the beginning this is in no way necessary. After all, we could move a scout, perhaps move a worker, and that's it... this should be done in less then an hour, and if the players know what is expected of them, they can do this without group discussion.

Once there is something more important (settling a new city...) this becomes different, and once we get into war this is a whole lot different. But at first? I certainly hope that we reach turn 30 in a month time.

Not that that will mean this game is going to speed forwards...

DeepO

	19-11-2002 02:35									#7
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I hope things move quickly too, but I'm not counting on it.

I'm perfectly ok with a "fire and forget" government that's in office for an extended period of time. I figure we will all have our say and will influence the game as much as we choose to by putting in time and effort (whether or not we hold a specific position) or not. But that's me.

-Arrian

	19-11-2002 02:55									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian I'm perfectly ok with a "fire and forget" government that's in office for an extended period of time. I figure we will all have our say and will influence the game as much as we choose to by putting in time and effort (whether or not we hold a specific position) or not. But that's me.

Yup, that's my view on it as well. The discussions should lay out general rules, and certainly the opening of the game. Any war that is going to take place will be heavily debated, but we should be able to trust our goverment to take those advices to heart, and play according to that without constant group-interaction. Which should speed things up, at least on our side (don't know about the other groups, of course)

DeepO

	19-11-2002 03:03									#9
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Argh... exactly what I feared. NYE we need a Prez action here: our acolyte flash has just started a thread in which he complains we wouldn't let him in! It doesn't matter to me whether he is allowed in or not, but he should get an official answer!!

DeepO

	19-11-2002 03:38									#10
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Heh... the issue has been resolved, it seems... no further Prez action needed. NYE, you get my full support as Prez, but remind me I will never vote on you for being the diplo head, we need someone who can, at certain times, asskiss his way into the best possible deal

DeepO

BTW, for the rest of the team: it seems #4 is resolved: we're closed for new members.

	19-11-2002 03:52									#11
	Re: Procedures for GS Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Term Length - Well in the beginning there will be much less to give orders for. The longest parts of this game will be industrial and modern (if the game makes it that far). In the beginning it shouldn't take even a day per team to submit orders. I don't think it will take as long as everyone seems to think it will, personally....so my vote is for one month per government,...or 5 weeks or so.

Impeachment - hmm tough call. I guess the only cause there would be for impeachment would be if a person was Prez or a minister and went on a leave of absence without appointing someone to relieve him, or didn't even post that he was leaving in the first place. that's really the only thing I can think of. Other that, and possibly double-agents....but I doubt that would ever happen.

Voting in polls - there's nothing to stop anyone on this team from voting in any poll they like, but I think that if everyone votes outside of their Schola then what is the purpose of the Schola in the first place?

Solution : There could be polls that are ONLY for those in that particular Schola, and there will be polls OPEN to all citizens. For example, before going to war there should be a poll in which EVERYONE participates if they can. But during a poll of something smaller like "Do we use Great Leader for an Army" I believe it should fall to those who are 'experts' in that field and belong to that schola....

any of this make sense?

	19-11-2002 05:02									#12
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quote: Originally posted by DeepO Heh... the issue has been resolved, it seems... no further Prez action needed. NYE, you get my full support as Prez, but remind me I will never vote on you for being the diplo head, we need someone who can, at certain times, asskiss his way into the best possible deal DeepO BTW, for the rest of the team: it seems #4 is resolved: we're closed for new members.

Yes, we apparently have another arch enemy. Hmmm. poor kid.

	19-11-2002 06:45									#13
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Well.. at least he was enthousiastic: he get refused by one team, and instead of asking another, he just starts his own... either he doesn't know what he is starting, or he is very committed. As to arch enemy: I don't expect much from it, but he is giving us a bad name with his anger. That's a pity, I think we will have a hard time as it is when it comes to finding allies.

So, my idea for rule #5: When dealing with the outside world, try to be overly polite to anyone, how insignificant it might seem. We risk that things get taken out of their contest, as it clearly happened here. And if everyone gangs up on us, we will have a hell of a time winning...

DeepO

	19-11-2002 07:17									#14
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On that topic, good job with the damage control Meshelic. We certainly don't want to be "the bad guys", we can't take on everyone right away.

	19-11-2002 07:31									#15
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I tried handling it humurously yet aggresively. We must make it clear that we will not be mis-quoted, we will not be mis-represented, and we will defend our honor every chance we get. We will not give a potential enemy any dirt or extra footing on us.

But we also won't give anyone an excuse to call everyone to arm's against us.

We must also make it clear that we are honest and stick to the truth (we have the rest of the game to ruin our reputation if we want, but now is not the time) .

	19-11-2002 07:43									#16
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Very true... we need some kind of PR manager here... which falls under the diplo school, I guess

DeepO

	19-11-2002 08:28									#17
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quote: 1. Election procedures: can we vote in any school, including those we don't belong to? What is the length of the term, start and end dates for the term?

quote: Voting in polls - there's nothing to stop anyone on this team from voting in any poll they like, but I think that if everyone votes outside of their Schola then what is the purpose of the Schola in the first place?

What if we give two votes to scola members.
(if the subject belongs to their territory off-cousre, duh)

	19-11-2002 08:32									#18
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quote: Very true... we need some kind of PR manager here... which falls under the diplo school, I guess

ASAP!!!

He could independent too (even better?).
I certainly wouldn't mind seeing FP come forward for this job

	19-11-2002 08:50									#19
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quote: Originally posted by DeepO Heh... the issue has been resolved, it seems... no further Prez action needed. NYE, you get my full support as Prez, but remind me I will never vote on you for being the diplo head, we need someone who can, at certain times, asskiss his way into the best possible deal

Sorry. I thought I sent him a 'nice' PM. flash is a bit of a loose canon with a definite edge to him. He used to be known as Charmon1. Some of you may remember him.

/Edit. Here is an indication...

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=59194

	19-11-2002 08:55									#20
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Aw C'mon, can't we have him on the team??
Along with Coralcle, should be loads of fun

	19-11-2002 08:56									#21
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Sorry. I thought I sent him a 'nice' PM. flash is a bit of a loose canon with a definite edge to him. He used to be known as Charmon1. Some of you may remember him. /Edit. Here is an indication... http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=59194

I prefer this thread

	19-11-2002 08:58									#22
	Increase the size of your Attachments

re the other matters. I am happy to watch you guys thrash things out. On 3 though...

Yes, there should be a mechanism for a vote of 'No Confidence' in the players, and maybe the Chiefs.

Beyond that there is bad behaviour of a grievous nature. Cheating, deceit within the team, betrayal of the team to outsiders... I can't think of anything else at the moment. These might be considered 'high crimes' and might merit banishment.

	19-11-2002 09:00									#23
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel I prefer this thread

That was hilarious.

	19-11-2002 09:01									#24
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by notyoueither That was hilarious.

Yeah, I'm not too upset that he's not on our team, I think there is a decent probability he would betray us.

	19-11-2002 09:03									#25
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quote: Originally posted by alva848 Aw C'mon, can't we have him on the team?? Along with Coralcle, should be loads of fun

I know! I posed that question in this thread

	19-11-2002 14:44									#26
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I will vote no on flash on the team. no no no. I don't particularly want someone who is as immature as that on this team; it will not lead to good things....

As far as PR manager, I'm pretty sure that would fall under the Diplomacy Schola jurisdiction. And on top of that, I suppose that's another thing the Diplomats need to vote on besides their Chief; they need to vote on whether to have the Chief act as ambassador to EVERY nation, or to vote for another person to act as ambassador to 1/2 of more/less of the nations out there.

Although I am willing to bend both ways; I think although any ministers (chief I mean) should be allowed to voice their opinion (and have it be representative of general feelings amongst the GS), I also think that the head of the Diplomacy Schola, or Chief Diplomat I mean, should technically be the official representative of our team. Regardless of whether that's me or not (although I'm the only one running so far, c'mon someone run against me) I still think the duties of that post should be as sole representative of the whole nation, unless the Grand Poobah decides to make a speech to all the nations.

The Diplomats are here because they are not only for strategy and intelligence, but for representation of the nation. Otherwise our job would be dull.

	19-11-2002 15:26									#27
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The way I see it, is that with different representatives, at least everyone has some responsibility.
And so also feels usefull, wich is needed for a game that will take along time.
They have to feel comitted to the team.
If all someone has to do, is say 'yeay' or 'ney' every 6 weeks, boredom will set in very soon.

	19-11-2002 15:29									#28
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forgot:

I don't think leaders( be it ministers or Poobah's ) should communicate to other teams directly. Except on very important occasion maybe.

	19-11-2002 17:47									#29
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Re: Flash: I knew I knew the guy, that thread with his identity crisis made me ROFL when I first read it. Nah, good thing he isn't on the team. Although, he could make things a bit more interesting

As to ambassadors: so far I don't think there will be a lot of candidates, but if wanted it would be a good idea to split the resonsibilities up. However, I strongly favor some kind of hierarchical structure, to avoid having the anarchy of the RPGers where everyone is his own king.

DeepO

	19-11-2002 22:35									#30
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quote: Originally posted by alva848 I certainly wouldn't mind seeing FP come forward for this job

You're determined to force some kind of executive position on me, aren't you?