19-11-2002 19:53									#1
	Railroad Tycoon II Get a bigger avatar today!

Every year around this time I go out and hunt in my "archives" for titles that I haven't played for a while. I have games there from Civ 1 and the xxx Quest Series from Sierra to present titles like Civ 3. Over the weekend I went back to RRTII and I must say that this game fascinates me as much as it did when I first played it a couple or so years back. I think it is the greatest game after the Civ and C & C series and Colonization. The one thing it misses is tunnels but after a while you get used to the fact you get yourself immersed in an excellent resources management and strategy game that lacks any type of violence (besides stock market crashes ). I would have thought that this game being in a very similar genre with Civ that it would have a lot of fans in here. So I wonder, does it? Do you guys still play it? Has anybody heard anything about a third installment? IIRC the original RRT was also a Sid game from Micropose, right?

So long...

	19-11-2002 20:05									#2
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I liked the original alot better.

	19-11-2002 20:20									#3
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I like it and play it every so often. Lack of iron mines for steel, or the fact that iron and coal always seem far apart is my only pet peeve.

	19-11-2002 21:08									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Someone talking Railroad Tycoon?

First of all I could note that there's 2 The Column wiritngs waiting to be published with some chatter about RT too. Hopefully they'll be released soon. I was hoping a discussion like this after The Column writings would have been published as I haven't dared to talk about RTS is here as this is after all a TBS dominant community.

Thanks, Pioneer!

So my little story is that I have played all versions of Railroad Tycoon, unlike the Civ series (CivNet, CtP and CtP2 included). I'm the legal owner of Railroad Tycoon Deluxe, Railroad Tycoon II, Railroad Tycoon II The Second Century and Railroad Tycoon II Gold Edition (Linux). The only one I don't have is the Platinum Edition, but it would be a waste of cash. I had Railroad Tycoon too, but not anymore.

quote: Do you guys still play it?

Railroad Tycoon - nope
Railroad Tycoon Deluxe - yes
Railroad Tycoon II - yes
Railroad Tycoon II TSC - yes
Railroad Tycoon II Gold Edition - yes

But just like you, I nowadays only do it occasionally.

quote: Has anybody heard anything about a third installment?

Read the next The Column by me. Or do you want the answer now?

quote: IIRC the original RRT was also a Sid game from Micropose, right?

Railroad Tycoon and Railroad Tycoon Deluxe were developed by MicroProse and the person behind those 2 titles is the god himself. Railroad Tycoon is one of the old games that Sid has developed.

I could go for hours about this subject, but I guess this is short enough.

Would someone like to play RT2 or TSC multiplayer in the nearby future? Maybe a small "Apolyton goes RT2" game?

	20-11-2002 00:12									#5
	Tired of ads?

Ras, I once tried to play an MP game of AOE and I got eaten alive by experienced online gamersharks, so I am a little sceptical about your proposal. Besides I always pause the game in order to get my thinking straight and that wont be possible in an MP game!

I know though that I'll be playing RRTII for the next few weeks!

So long..

	20-11-2002 00:23									#6
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I don't play it very often. Every week or so just because i like trains

	20-11-2002 01:30									#7
	Tired of ads?

A couple of years ago i bought the "Tycoon collection" which had, Rollercoaster, Transport and Railroad Tycoon II. I admit at the time (not knowing much about it) that i thought RRTII was there to fill the disk out, but it turned out i played that more than either of the other two. Havent played it for a while, but these kinda threads bring back those old memories.

	20-11-2002 06:43									#8
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Well, the only problem with Railroad Tycoon II's stock market that I noticed, is taht after a point, your competitiors cease issuing stock... and since all the stock is bought ulp- you can never 'buy out' a company in the conventional sense unless you play the markets early in the game...

Oh well, I was no good at the game... only able to complete 1 or 2 scenarios- but I created a few good maps with the map editor !

	20-11-2002 08:59									#9
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Yes I still play it. I have had all version including the C-64 version.

I still have all the old dos version.

	20-11-2002 09:07									#10
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I much prefer the original. There are a lot of things you can do in the old game such as rate wars that you can't do in the sequel. I am not going to play a game where I cannot build tunnels. What kind of idiocy is that?

	20-11-2002 13:20									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

So there are some fans around . I started the a scenario the other night and I will be playing it until Christmas. Especially, now that I heard that PTW will come out here in Germany for 36€ , which forces me to wait for the price to drop before I buy it.

So long...

	20-11-2002 16:07									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by DarkCloud Oh well, I was no good at the game... only able to complete 1 or 2 scenarios- but I created a few good maps with the map editor !

Well, I have played through the campaigns in RT2 and TSC. Nice entertainment.

The only problem nowadays is the lack of a matchmaking service as Heat ceased to exist when Sega bought them and shut it down.

Pioneer,

are you sure you don't want to play MP?

	20-11-2002 17:51									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I revist it quite often. I miss some of the features from the original but the graphics make up for it.
It seems to have aged pretty well although i'd have liked a more aggresive AI and it can be a bit puzzle like so once you've worked out the winning formula it can be a bit easy.

	20-11-2002 17:54									#14
	Inflate your Upload Space

@Ras,

why do you smell a victim?

Has anybody around here heard anything about a RRTIII? I've looked around and I haven't really fouond anything besides some vague comment on Gamespot!

So long...

	20-11-2002 21:20									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I have always been intrigued by RRT2, but haven't yet gotten into it to any depth. I have so many games to get through, but I hope one day to spend some time with RRT2, which I think is a very well-done game, even with it's shortcomings.

Here's a forum where the game is still discussed: http://www.crotrainz.com/cgi-bin/forum/board.pl

Have fun!

	20-11-2002 22:24									#16
	Increase Your PM Length

A few months ago, I bought RRT2 platinum...from the bargain bin(ie $10). I haven't played it yet, but after reading through this thread I'm becoming more and more intrigued.

	21-11-2002 06:24									#17
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

rwprice- you had best play the game before Bill Gates makes it obsolete ... like he did to Command and Conquer!

	21-11-2002 08:58									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Standup I revist it quite often. I miss some of the features from the original but the graphics make up for it.

Screw the graphics. Why do I need to zoom in that deep anyway? Besides, it is arguable that an overhead view similar to the original is superior to the isometric view of the sequel for railroad building games. It's a lot easier to mess up with an isometric view when you start building.

	21-11-2002 09:07									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

While the graphics of the originally certainly aren't very good (by todays standards you'd have a hard time even calling them graphics), I wasn't very happy with the graphics of the second, either. They donn't add anything to the game, and if anything, the 3Dness and lack of important detail really took away from it.


*disclamer* I haven't played either game for so long that they're both a bit of a blur to me now, though.

	21-11-2002 12:03									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Well, the graphics make a difference, but the most important thing is the removal of the limits of the total number of trains and stations. Also the AI is now working and much more understandable. Okay, indeed, it still builds bad lines, but those who have played RT and RTDX know that the improvement on that front is huge. I used to be a fanatic player of all titles in the Railroad Tycoon series, but as I got RT2, I stopped playing RTDX as RT2 was that much better. Admit it. The tunnels are a problem, but the current system is fine (well, not that realistic maybe, but more challenging; especially in TSC when you build from Portland to Fairbanks in Alaska or what about the Alps in RT2? It would be too easy; just get rich in north Italy and then build a tunnel (sidenote: reminds me of the "big friend" guy from Edolo )). The zooming and rotating system is just fine for me, so the isometric view would be (IMO) a step backwards.

	21-11-2002 12:14									#21
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by The Pioneer why do you smell a victim?

Sorry, I can't smell anything.

quote: Has anybody around here heard anything about a RRTIII? I've looked around and I haven't really fouond anything besides some vague comment on Gamespot!

Hey, don't ruin my The Column writing. If you wait for it, you can read it there.

	21-11-2002 12:38									#22
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Finally a game of the gods. Railroad Tycoon is up with those games us nostaligic gamer miss. Others include the old Sim City and the first civilisation.

I ofthen find these games to be more playable and harder to successfully complete.

Have fun

	21-11-2002 13:05									#23
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Ok, Ras you got me but I usually do not check the column so you may have to point it out to me!

I think the graphics, the sound FX and the soundtracks of the game serve it very well. I have no problem with the way I view the game and lest I forget ithas a very intuitive interface.

How about scenario building!? I actually don't build any myself but I played around with it, it's one of the best ones that I've seen around and the game is "old".

@DarkCloud, what do you mean by that?

So long...

	21-11-2002 20:54									#24
	Full PM-box? Change here!

RT1 is an all-time classic. RT2 looked nice, but gameplay is abysmal - once youy figure out how the bond/stockmarket thing works, the path to victory is always the same. I got all gold medals in the campaigns, then sat back and though - why am I doing this? - and quit. A shame, since I really, really wanted to like the game.

	21-11-2002 22:30									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I played it only for a few hours, not because I disliked it, but because I had too many other games to play at that time. But I may give it another try.

	22-11-2002 12:22									#26
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Rasbelin Well, the graphics make a difference, but the most important thing is the removal of the limits of the total number of trains and stations. Also the AI is now working and much more understandable. Okay, indeed, it still builds bad lines, but those who have played RT and RTDX know that the improvement on that front is huge. I used to be a fanatic player of all titles in the Railroad Tycoon series, but as I got RT2, I stopped playing RTDX as RT2 was that much better. Admit it. The tunnels are a problem, but the current system is fine (well, not that realistic maybe, but more challenging; especially in TSC when you build from Portland to Fairbanks in Alaska or what about the Alps in RT2? It would be too easy; just get rich in north Italy and then build a tunnel (sidenote: reminds me of the "big friend" guy from Edolo )). The zooming and rotating system is just fine for me, so the isometric view would be (IMO) a step backwards.

Ras, the limitation on trains and stations is meant to be a challenge, just like the way you view the inability to build tunnels in RR2. Surely it would be best if none of these limitations are there, personally I much much prefer the limitations on trains and stations.

Late in a game I was hard pressed to shuffle all the loads I had among a few large stations in big cities, I had no need for all the stations and trains. Similarly, early in a game when I was scraping the bottom, I wouldn't have the money to build those stations and trains. This is a limitation that is annoying but it is rarely encountered. On the other hand, the inability to build tunnels is always in your face. It is just too idiotic to think about.

As for AI, both games cheat heavily, and their routes are just as bad. They make lots of $ dispite of this. I don't see how that can be called an improvement. Maybe it is an improvement in playing the stock market, but I really wasn't expecting a stock and finance game intead of a railroad building game, so that's not an improvement as far as I am concerned.

	22-11-2002 22:35									#27
	Got spare money?

I wasn't trying to suggest that better gfx compensate for a lack of gameplay but i found the original almost unplayable beacuse of what i've become use to over the last few years.
The AI doesn't seem to follow the same rules as the player and that makes the games almost puzzle based but then i guess thats what MP is for until we have decent AI. I remember in the orginal having to fight to save my company from being bought out by the AI and i've never seen that in RRT2.
Probably the most annoying feature i found was the inability to buy and place factories near the natural resources - something the orginal allowed. In some games i never make half the products available because the random placement makes it impossible or highly impractical.

	23-11-2002 05:41									#28
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quote: Originally posted by moomin I got all gold medals in the campaigns, then sat back and though - why am I doing this?

I assume you played once through the campaign at easy level, right?

	23-11-2002 06:03									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Ras, the limitation on trains and stations is meant to be a challenge, just like the way you view the inability to build tunnels in RR2. Surely it would be best if none of these limitations are there, personally I much much prefer the limitations on trains and stations.

I assume I'm the opposition then.

quote: As for AI, both games cheat heavily, and their routes are just as bad. They make lots of $ dispite of this. I don't see how that can be called an improvement.

I agree about the cheating, but it's at least somewhat logical as you can see the trains of your opponents. Now we also have mergers and not just buying up a company and not gaining control of its network.

quote: Maybe it is an improvement in playing the stock market, but I really wasn't expecting a stock and finance game intead of a railroad building game, so that's not an improvement as far as I am concerned.

IMO the integration of the financies fits in well as it's after all a game about making business with railroads.

	23-11-2002 07:49									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Standup,

"The AI doesn't seem to follow the same rules as the player and that makes the games almost puzzle based but then i guess thats what MP is for until we have decent AI. I remember in the orginal having to fight to save my company from being bought out by the AI and i've never seen that in RRT2."

I am not sure what you meant by "puzzle-based." IIRC, the computer players in the original Railroad Tycoon behaved quite expectedly. They even vaguedly resembled the various historical tycooons, which was quite a feat in those days. If a computer player is a builder, it just builds tracks. If it is a fiancier you better be careful about your own stocks. If it is some kind of combo it could be a bit unpredictable but nevertheless they don't do things randomly. Not like the "erratic" players in Master of Orion.


Ras,

"I agree about the cheating, but it's at least somewhat logical as you can see the trains of your opponents."

Well, all right, if you insist. Not much of an improvement though, because you can never tell what the trains are carrying.

"Now we also have mergers and not just buying up a company and not gaining control of its network."

What do you mean?