22-11-2002 04:16									#1
	This scares me to death! Is all the Islamic world mad? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Incredible article.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...a_miss_world_11

excerpt- Rioters stabbed pedestrians and torched churches during violent demonstrations Thursday in the northern city of Kaduna. The Red Cross said more than 50 people died and 200 were wounded. The protests were triggered by a newspaper article suggesting Islam's founding prophet might have chosen a wife from among contestants in the Miss World beauty pageant in Nigeria.

excerpt-Shehu Sani of the Kaduna-based Civil Rights Congress said he watched a crowd stab one young man, then force a tire filled with gasoline around his neck and burn him alive

	22-11-2002 04:21									#2
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I wouldn't actually consider the Christian world to be too much better.

As for the brutalities - that's mob behavior, something you'll find in any mob, any country, any culture.

	22-11-2002 04:28									#3
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quote: Is all the Islamic world mad?

I don't know about that, but it seems that the people of Kaduna are stark raving bonkers.

	22-11-2002 04:29									#4
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quote: Originally posted by ranskaldan I wouldn't actually consider the Christian world to be too much better.

You have to be kidding me. You are being inane.

	22-11-2002 04:31									#5
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I doubt there are many Christian countries where a howling mob would burn people alive over a newspaper article.

	22-11-2002 04:36									#6
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There are plenty of Christian countries in Africa, I assure you.

Just about 100-200 years ago, Europe was pretty much the same.

	22-11-2002 04:37									#7
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According to mass immigration's rules the same will probably happen in every european country within 40 years

	22-11-2002 04:38									#8
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ranskaldan, are you trying to say this is born of ignorance?

	22-11-2002 04:42									#9
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Yeah, but in the crazy African countries they butcher each other over sensible things like race and politics, not over newspaper articles.

And yes, Europe was about the same 200-300 years ago.Hell, some of the things that happened in Europe in the 20th century were hideous and disgusting in every way.
This isn't necessarily a Europe/Asia thing or a Christian/Islam or a USA/Iraq thing (IMHO) .... it's an EvilBastardsWhoKillPeopleForNoReason / NicePeopleWhoDon'tBurnPeopleAlive thing.

	22-11-2002 04:44									#10
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quote: Originally posted by ranskaldan There are plenty of Christian countries in Africa, I assure you. Just about 100-200 years ago, Europe was pretty much the same.

I would say more like 600 years.
If people said that Jesus might have chosen a wife from the Miss World pageant in Nigeria, I doubt a riot would occur. Would anyone even care? It sure doesn't seem like an outright blaspheme.

	22-11-2002 04:58									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Kingof the Apes I would say more like 600 years.

Nah, for a civilization that managed to kill 6 million people based on race, I don't have that much confidence.

quote: If people said that Jesus might have chosen a wife from the Miss World pageant in Nigeria, I doubt a riot would occur. Would anyone even care? It sure doesn't seem like an outright blaspheme.

Well, depends. America is more secular than many countries, but for fundamentalists, anything can be blasphemy. The actual religion involved doesn't matter that much.

quote: ranskaldan, are you trying to say this is born of ignorance?

Perhaps you should reply with points as King of the apes has done, instead of throwing meaningless nothings.

	22-11-2002 05:15									#12
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It this isn't evidence we're in the midst of a clash of civilizations, I don't know what is. *sigh*

	22-11-2002 05:17									#13
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The world is always in the midst of a clash of civilisations. It has been for millenia.

	22-11-2002 05:20									#14
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If a newspaper tell a community of christian fundamentalists that jesus married anyone and they would do the same thing. just shows you how stupid religion is.

	22-11-2002 05:22									#15
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The *whole* Islamic world? That's one hell of a generalisation. All through-out history there have been stuff like this happening. Spanish Inquesition, the KKK, etc, etc. Those people back then were just as human and just as capable of rational thought as people are now, so a better statement would be: "The Human Race continues to spawn wackos who use religion as a guise to kill people."

	22-11-2002 05:35									#16
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quote: Originally posted by ranskaldan Nah, for a civilization that managed to kill 6 million people based on race, I don't have that much confidence.

This riot was based on a story.
The holocaust had several factors involved and took several years for Hitler to 'make the time right' to start his massacre.

	22-11-2002 05:39									#17
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quote: The latest demonstrations began Wednesday with the burning of an office of ThisDay newspaper in Kaduna after it published the article questioned the reasoning of Muslim groups that have condemned the Miss World pageant to be held Dec. 7 in the Nigerian capital, Abuja. Muslim groups say the pageant promotes sexual promiscuity and indecency

So they disapprove of the 'theme' of the pageant because it offends their religion, and they show their displeasure by killing people?

	22-11-2002 05:46									#18
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quote: So they disapprove of the 'theme' of the pageant because it offends their religion, and they show their displeasure by killing people?

To us, being outwardly sexual is acceptable, but to them, it is morally corrupt as say, pedophilia. And if there was a pedophile's expo over here, I'm sure there would be some ass-kickage. It's all relative to the enviroment.

	22-11-2002 05:49									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Hobbes To us, being outwardly sexual is acceptable, but to them, it is morally corrupt as say, pedophilia. And if there was a pedophile's expo over here, I'm sure there would be some ass-kickage. It's all relative to the enviroment.

No one I know would set buildings on fire and kill people over a pedophile expo.

If its so unacceptable to the general population, why have it there?

	22-11-2002 06:01									#20
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quote: No one I know would set buildings on fire and kill people over a pedophile expo.

Because we are socially conditioned to keep our rage contained, but I think there are many people who would kill a pedophile in blind rage. Perhaps a prophet being shamed is such an offence, that it equals a child be molested over here.

quote: If its so unacceptable to the general population, why have it there?

True, it ain't a good place for a beauty pagent, but pagents are a world wide thing.

	22-11-2002 06:29									#21
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So, the guy they stabbed and neck laced wrote the article? He published it? He worked at the paper?

This story is disgusting. There are differences between cultures. It is not politically correct to say that one culture is 'better' than another, but stories like that begin to discredit that rather silly notion.

	22-11-2002 07:05									#22
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A man has a harem and raises a large family of children and then sells the children as sex slaves. This, in my opinion and practically everyone else, is terribly wrong. This takes place all over the rocky mountain region between British Columbia and Utah and probably in many other places in North America.
Every culture has its 'black eye', both western and Islamic. Every culture has its crazies and the not-so-crazies. No culture is better than another.

	22-11-2002 07:10									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Kingof the Apes This riot was based on a story. The holocaust had several factors involved and took several years for Hitler to 'make the time right' to start his massacre.

Nevertheless, when he DID get started, the German population and military enthusiastically shipped an entire ethnic group through the ghettos, into the concentration camps, into the gas chambers. Reason? The Jews were corrupt, evil, exploiters, etc etc, and they hammered Jesus into the cross. Yes, and in return, German soldiers shoved Jewish babies into gas chambers and later went in to collect the remains to burn.

I fail to see whether this Nigerian mob or the Holocaust perpetrators are more "civilized".

	22-11-2002 07:25									#24
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Nigeria isn't quite a muslim country. The population is slightly less than 50% muslim, 40% christian, and 10% indigenous religions, yet the government has imposed Sharia law on the whole country.

I'm a little fuzzy about one part of the article that started the riot. The article stated that thwe prophet Muhammed couold have chosen a wife from the beauty pagent contestants. Was this statement meant to recommend their morality, or to mock the prophet as a lecher?

	22-11-2002 08:07									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Hobbes A man has a harem and raises a large family of children and then sells the children as sex slaves. This, in my opinion and practically everyone else, is terribly wrong. This takes place all over the rocky mountain region between British Columbia and Utah and probably in many other places in North America. Every culture has its 'black eye', both western and Islamic. Every culture has its crazies and the not-so-crazies. No culture is better than another.

Anyone doing this would be keeping it well hidden, if they do as you portray. If they did not, they would be prosecuted.

And what exactly does that have to do with stabbing and burning uninvolved third parties because of some news paper article?

And to disagree with you, I think your argument is ample evidence that some cultures are better (or worse) than others. Those Mormons who do as you say are sure a lot worse than most. Yes, they are a culture. They maintain a culture distinct from the majority around them. That is why they clustered in what were then isolated areas. To maintain their culture.

	22-11-2002 08:21									#26
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Christianity got the whole 'Kill the Infidel' thing out of its system during the Crusades and Inquisition. Now we just have the "Annoy the Infidel', which is more or less humane, depending on how you see it.

The thing is, no matter what you think of people like Jerry Fawell and Pat Robertson, do you really see them advocating something like this?

	22-11-2002 08:32									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Hobbes A man has a harem and raises a large family of children and then sells the children as sex slaves. This, in my opinion and practically everyone else, is terribly wrong. This takes place all over the rocky mountain region between British Columbia and Utah and probably in many other places in North America. Every culture has its 'black eye', both western and Islamic. Every culture has its crazies and the not-so-crazies. No culture is better than another.

People will desperately try to equate anything with our culture in order to defend a pack of bloodthirsty monkeys holding the koran. He might as well have given another example of muslim violence in trying to point out guilt.

Listen... today, now... WE ARE BETTER THAN THAT PRIMITIVE, APESH*T CULTURE, PERIOD

F*ck.

	22-11-2002 09:03									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Hobbes A man has a harem and raises a large family of children and then sells the children as sex slaves. This, in my opinion and practically everyone else, is terribly wrong. This takes place all over the rocky mountain region between British Columbia and Utah and probably in many other places in North America. Every culture has its 'black eye', both western and Islamic. Every culture has its crazies and the not-so-crazies. No culture is better than another.

The Mormans try very hard to but bigamists in jail. Some slip through the cracks.

	22-11-2002 10:00									#29
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quote: And what exactly does that have to do with stabbing and burning uninvolved third parties because of some news paper article?

I was pointing out that it is very easy to point the finger. Sure it was absolutely terrible what they did, but if a culture would be condemned on its acts of brutish violence, I don't think the Islamics would be the only ones held accountable.

quote: And to disagree with you, I think your argument is ample evidence that some cultures are better (or worse) than others. Those Mormons who do as you say are sure a lot worse than most. Yes, they are a culture. They maintain a culture distinct from the majority around them. That is why they clustered in what were then isolated areas. To maintain their culture.

If that is true, then shouldn't the Islamic world be given the same benefit of catagorizing the different, and sometimes rogue, sects of itself. The Mormons ARE part of western culture, as are the KKK. They are different than the 'norm', but they are there. Just as the fundamentalists and the fanatics are part of Islam. To us, all we can see is the fanatical because of what the media tells us. We have always been shown as the good guys. Propaganda, people!!

quote: People will desperately try to equate anything with our culture in order to defend a pack of bloodthirsty monkeys holding the koran.

Ah, nothin' like good ol' classic rascism. I wish there was a middle-finger smiley.

	22-11-2002 10:12									#30
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Oh, I'm sorry! How f*cking racist of my to be critical of murderous zealots! They have the mentality of rabid monkeys, and if I want to assume that from examples they give - it's F*CKING RACISM?!

Grow up, and get out more. You're rotting from over-cautious, hyper liberal "EVERYONE CRITICAL IS A RACIST" thinking.