24-11-2002 13:10									#31
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Here's 4 of my favourite scary BNP quotes. Again, all lifted from their website.

"BNP councillors will oppose the influx of 'asylum seekers' and 'refugees', and will refuse to lavish money on these economic migrants. We believe that the money the council raises through tax should be spent exclusively on local British people to provide quality services for them. "

Notice how "refugee" is automatically equated with "economic migrant"? They don't recognise the concept of a genuine refugee.

"There will be a new Magna Carta under which our individual liberties will be protected from oppressive government abroad or at home. We shall be free! "

Scary. The existing Magna Carta isn't perfect, but would you want it redrafted by the BNP?

"The majority of racist attacks in this country are committed against white British people, contrary to the image that the anti-British mass media portray."

They chose not to back this statement up with anything. I can't say I'm surprised.

" We are against mixed-raced relationships because we believe that all species and races of life on this planet are beautiful and must be preserved. When whites take partners from other ethnic groups, a white family line that stretches back into deep pre-history is destroyed"

I think I don't really need to comment on that one, do I?

	24-11-2002 16:12									#32
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quote: No recent government advocates letting bogus asylum seekers in but to listen to some its as if the "problem" is as easy to solve as waving a magic wand. Its actually not that easy and in case you didn't notice a lot of recent government legislation has run into trouble and opposition, not least fronm the judiciary, who have asserted that a lot of it strikes at basic human rights and freedoms. How do you solve the problem then? Taken even more rights and freedoms away? And how will you do that while asserting traditional British rights? Do tell I'm all ears.

In a BNP government legislation like that will be easier to get through the Commons, and how can it possibly be against human rights? They have no right to be here so they are illegal immigrants. All of them shold be locked up then sent back to their own country.

quote: Well we all want a decent NHS, but not at the expense of being an isolated state. We don't have the Empire any more.

How would we be isolated?
Withdrawing from an organisation where free trade is almost illegal is not a bad idea in my opinion. We should withdraw now before we get too deeply involved.

	24-11-2002 16:24									#33
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quote: "The families of anti-white racist thugs should face eviction. "

I said I agree with some of their policies not all of them.

quote: Fab. An isolationist state. That makes Britain's involvement in WW2 an act of treachery, I suppose. All the fascists in the 1930's certainly thought so.

How? Germany was a threat to Britain therefore our involvement was vital for British interests. We should not go to war simply because the US decides its going to war.

quote: Notice how "refugee" is automatically equated with "economic migrant"? They don't recognise the concept of a genuine refugee.

What wrong with that? Why should refugees get houses jobs over our own people?

Just as I oppose whites being given jobs and land in Africa, I oppose blacks being given jobs and land in Europe-because it is not their land.

	25-11-2002 16:45									#34
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"Notice how "refugee" is automatically equated with "economic migrant"? They don't recognise the concept of a genuine refugee."

Since Britain doesn't have a border with a country from which anyone would want to seek refuge, every refugee in this country has bypassed many safe havens to get here.

If they were genuinely seeking asylum/refuge, they would have stopped in the first country they got to. Instead of taking advantage and abusing our generosity.

	25-11-2002 16:49									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's "Notice how "refugee" is automatically equated with "economic migrant"? They don't recognise the concept of a genuine refugee." Since Britain doesn't have a border with a country from which anyone would want to seek refuge, every refugee in this country has bypassed many safe havens to get here. If they were genuinely seeking asylum/refuge, they would have stopped in the first country they got to. Instead of taking advantage and abusing our generosity.

have you never heard of flying direct

	25-11-2002 16:57									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Rage 1)A mass expansion of freedom and democracy to roll back the erosion of our traditional freedoms and truly reflect the wishes of the people; the adoption of popular referenda and hi-tech direct democracy 2)The establishment of a government that puts British interests first. An end to immigration and the scandal of bogus asylum-seekers flooding Britain. The use of the billions now wasted in foreign aid to fund generous "Homeward Bound" schemes to encourage immigrants to return to their lands of origin. 3)The use of the £1 million per hour we at present pay the E.U. to fund the restoration of an effective National Health Service and proactive measures to a healthier population in the first place. 4)A crack-down on crime and tougher treatment of criminals, including the return of the death penalty for child killers and terrorists. 5)An alternative defense strategy based on the principle of armed neutrality; no British blood should be shed in conflicts which do not involve vital British interests. The restoration of the County Regiment system and the reversal of defense cuts which have weakened our Armed Forces and cost thousands of jobs. 6)The crushing of the IRA and other terrorist groups, the termination of the Anglo-Irish agreement and the establishment of a devolved, non-sectarian parliament in Northern Ireland.

1.you mean mob rule.
2.we do not spend billions on foreign aid, we should infact spend more(if trageted properly)
3.at maximum you could divert an extra 5 billion into the NHS which is not enough
4.typical popularist nonsense to attract votes of people whi would not normally consider voting nazi
5.as we are are trading nation we need to protect oour intersts which include preserving democracy and helping get rid of dictators.
6.you can't have a non secatrian parliament in NI, as for crushing the IRA it can't be done. To attempt it you would have trample on the nationalist communities rights which would just increase their support.

	25-11-2002 17:00									#37
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Why would they fly a longer and more expensive journey? Surely all they need is a nearby safe haven.

	25-11-2002 17:32									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's Why would they fly a longer and more expensive journey? Surely all they need is a nearby safe haven.

Exactly- they go to teh first airport and get on the first flight out of there, some refugges go to other countries you know. Or some people are so desperate and scared that they pay someone to arrange their escape- they don't have a list of possible destinations.

	25-11-2002 17:34									#39
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"Or some people are so desperate and scared that they pay someone to..."

...greedily get them into the most generous country.

	25-11-2002 17:37									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's "Or some people are so desperate and scared that they pay someone to..." ...greedily get them into the most generous country.

The UK is not the most generous country

	25-11-2002 17:45									#41
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One of.

Our taxpayers are being taken advantage of.

	25-11-2002 17:47									#42
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For those who are 'for' immigration, more accepting of refugees, more charity etc, such as Laz and Stinger, how far would you consider it fair to go?

If we had an open door policy you come up against some serious problems - housing, social integration, oversaturating communites etc.

I'm not against refugees - they need help, I'm not against economic migrants - they are adding to the economy, I'm not against social welfare to help them adjust to the country - they need to be assimilated. We are nowhere near our limits and I would guess that at the moment immigrants benefit more than they hinder the country, but I wouldn't like to see the floodgates open to millions of people a year. (I don't think this is going to happen, buts its a hypothetical)

Just wondering where you would draw the line?

	25-11-2002 17:51									#43
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I would draw the line at the UN convention for refugess definition. That is what UK policy is.

	25-11-2002 17:53									#44
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I'm not up on the UN definition, could you enlighten me?

	25-11-2002 17:58									#45
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I don't see any need for a line. People ought to be able to live where they please, regardless of national boundaries.

	25-11-2002 18:03									#46
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quote: People ought to be able to live where they please, regardless of national boundaries.

This would be OK if there wasn't the existence of large welfare states. Allowing in millions of refugees to the UK would cripple us, in terms of crime and welfare payments.

	25-11-2002 18:14									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo I don't see any need for a line. People ought to be able to live where they please, regardless of national boundaries.

If anyone in the world could live wherever they wanted you would have serious socio-economic problems.

I would dread to think what would happen to the UK if 20-30million more people chose to live here.

	25-11-2002 18:22									#48
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The definition is:

a person who owing to well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality and is unable, or owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country; or who, not having a nationality and being outside the country of his former habitual residence as a result of such events, is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to return to it.

That defintion is the basis for UK asylum policy

	25-11-2002 18:29									#49
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quote: This would be OK if there wasn't the existence of large welfare states. Allowing in millions of refugees to the UK would cripple us, in terms of crime and welfare payments.

I don't particularly care for large welfare states.

Why do you support the reduction of the welfare state, yet also support extremely authoritarian (BNP, I presume) immigration policies?

quote: If anyone in the world could live wherever they wanted you would have serious socio-economic problems.

In comparison to the world as it currently is? I doubt that. You might temporarily have some more problems in developed states, but you'd also see a more significant reduction of problems in developing states. Furthermore, immigration would help fuel further economic expansion of the West, and remittances and Western education would help fuel economic expansion in the third world. IMO, liberalization of immigration is pivotal in alleviating the socio-economic problems the world currently faces.

	25-11-2002 18:39									#50
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Take the case of the US... how would opening the southern border advance the socio-economic condition of Mexico? Both in the short and long-terms?

Even within countries free migration does little to advance the poorer regions. In the UK the north suffers from chronic under-investment, and the south east suffers from overpopulation as that is where most people move to.

	25-11-2002 18:48									#51
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quote: Take the case of the US... how would opening the southern border advance the socio-economic condition of Mexico? Both in the short and long-terms?

Remittances from Mexicans who decide to stay in the US, plus an influx of educated Mexicans who decide to move back. IIRC, remittances to people in developing states from relatives in developed states have the effect of several times international aid/charity. Anyways, you'll get much more capital (both human and nonhuman) in Mexico than currently.

	25-11-2002 21:34									#52
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Ok, First of all, my apologies for opening another thread on this subject elsewhere, i've just seen this one.

Right, In this thread I'm with boddington's, he is right when he says they get better funding and such. Funding isnt the real issue, it's employment. The govenment pensions department here recently advertised for a job dealing with pension enquiries, in the ad they say 'We would particulary encourage people from asian, and other minority backgrounds to apply' - it's alright having equality but thats going beyond it.

Another thing that annoys me, some people may be aware of the £600,000 GP being created especially for ayslum seekers in Derby. We'll we have a great doctors here, with many GP's having closed thier books, i had to ring round about 6 the last time i needed a doctors. It is just disgusting that they can jump the queue and get special treatment, over the people who pay tax to the city.

Finally, 'Thestinger', you dissapoint, i thought most Yorkshiremen had common sense, you are more like one of these London PC Nerds (No offense).

Cheers
Matt

	25-11-2002 23:13									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's One of. Our taxpayers are being taken advantage of.

Damn straight. My taxes paid for your education and you've turned out a ****ing moron.

	25-11-2002 23:18									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Rothy Finally, 'Thestinger', you dissapoint, i thought most Yorkshiremen had common sense, you are more like one of these London PC Nerds (No offense).

Well why bother promoting a racial line when it looks like you've got a big enough problem with people who live in a different county?

	25-11-2002 23:18									#55
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I'm not able to get into a public discussion of immigration policies (PM me to find out why) so I can't really participate in this thread given the direction it has taken. I would have just have left it alone but didn't want Rage to believe that I was not up to countering his response to my post. All I will say on that is that he reveals himself by his willingness to catagorise people by their ethnic background and deny those who don't fit his perception of the right background as undeserving of basic humkan rights. The term for somone who does that is "racist". Sad.

	25-11-2002 23:21									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Rothy Right, In this thread I'm with boddington's, he is right when he says they get better funding and such. Funding isnt the real issue, it's employment. The govenment pensions department here recently advertised for a job dealing with pension enquiries, in the ad they say 'We would particulary encourage people from asian, and other minority backgrounds to apply' - it's alright having equality but thats going beyond it.

How does that go beyond equality? Encouraging sectors of the community to apply does not equate to giving them preference on job selection, and the employer could be breaching employment law if they did so.

	25-11-2002 23:25									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Rothy Another thing that annoys me, some people may be aware of the £600,000 GP being created especially for ayslum seekers in Derby. We'll we have a great doctors here, with many GP's having closed thier books, i had to ring round about 6 the last time i needed a doctors. It is just disgusting that they can jump the queue and get special treatment, over the people who pay tax to the city.

The NHS provides medical care to those who need it, regardless of whether they pay taxes or not. There are many unemployed people in Derby who are, no doubt, grateful for that fact.

The solution to the problem is easy- you need more doctors. How about encouraging more immigrant doctors?

	25-11-2002 23:26									#58
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has anyone ever thought that the Government has a duty to ensure that the civil service reflects the community and that in areas where ethnic minorities are already underepresented wenbcourgaing applications in an open competition is a good way to begin to redress that balance?

{Taz waits for lots of pakibashing stupid comments from the Bodalikes of this world.}

	25-11-2002 23:28									#59
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Anyway, Spink, I want an answer from you. Are you a member or supporter of the BNP?

	26-11-2002 00:49									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp How does that go beyond equality? Encouraging sectors of the community to apply does not equate to giving them preference on job selection, and the employer could be breaching employment law if they did so.

It seems unlikely that they would encourage certain sections of the community to apply if they didn't have any intention of hiring them over others. To think otherwise is naive.

quote: Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp , and the employer could be breaching employment law if they did so.

I would guess that the chances of someone being prosecuted for unfairly hiring a minority are tiny. When was the last time this happened?