26-11-2002 17:41									#91
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If our nation had a border with Afghanistan or Kurdish areas of Turkey, I wouldn't disagree with us accepting them.

	26-11-2002 17:44									#92
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That is a cop out. We are one of the countries who attacked Afghanistan, we have to take responsibility.

	26-11-2002 17:49									#93
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Take the terrorists and pay them for escaping?

It's only the rich who make it this far. If all the world's poor found a way of making it to the UK as well, would you be in favour of us supporting 10 or 20 million refugees?

Why? Why not?

	26-11-2002 19:42									#94
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"It's only the rich who make it this far."

Proof!

"If all the world's poor found a way of making it to the UK as well, would you be in favour of us supporting 10 or 20 million refugees?"

Ah. So you are going to ignore my call for you to comment on Laz's post and come up with something preposterous instead. That's why we have such strict rules about who can and can't apply for asylum.

If it was numbers in the millions and then there would be legitimate concerns. This country just isn't that big. The numbers aren't that large though, it's not even as large as they are in the other large European countries.

	26-11-2002 20:05									#95
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In terms of actual numbers, Germany ranks first with 88,365, followed by the UK, which has seen 88,300 asylum requests (both including dependants).

We should let/make them work.

	26-11-2002 20:10									#96
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's In terms of actual numbers, Germany ranks first with 88,365, followed by the UK, which has seen 88,300 asylum requests (both including dependants). We should let/make them work.

Refugees are not given permission to work?

	26-11-2002 20:14									#97
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From Laz's post:

quote: Research carried out by Personnel Today in November 2001, found that 9 out of 10 employers want to take on refugees to meet skills' shortages, but do not due to ignorance of the law and confusing Home Office paperwork. According to a recent Home Office study, migrants, including asylum seekers and refugees - are far from being a burden on UK tax payers. On the contrary, in 1999-2000, migrants in the UK made a net fiscal contribution of approximately £2.5 billion, worth 1p on income tax.

If you mean that they should be processed quicker or allowed to work in the first six months then I agree.

Ok so we've gone from you saying that they are a horrible threat and drain on the economy to saying that they should be allowed to work? Great progress!

	26-11-2002 20:16									#98
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Refugees are not given permission to work?

Cali: Again from Laz's post above:

Asylum applicants are not allowed to work for the first six months of their asylum application date.

	26-11-2002 20:20									#99
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Set up sweat shops or something where they can earn their £33 a week by doing a full week's work.

Their choice to come here from France then.

	26-11-2002 20:27									#100
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So you have skilled asylum seekers who would love to be working, and employers desperate for their skills but you want to see them working in some kind of primitive sweat shops for the sake of it?

You're a frikking genius.

	26-11-2002 20:28									#101
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If they are better workers then they should get the jobs. The sweat shops are for those who aren't skilled. They need a disincentive to stop them coming here.

	26-11-2002 20:41									#102
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You don't think that the current system of sticking them in what's effectively a prison for several months in poverty would discourage people?

For a lot of genuine asylum seekers the chance to live in the UK and have a job would still be better than what they have at home.

I think it's great that despite our country being a bit knackered and run down, it's still somewhere people want to come and live and work.

Half my family are immigrants, from Ireland. I'm sure other people you know are similar. Your friend Provost Harrison for one.

I don't really like the idea that my Grandad would have been stuck in a sweatshop, although he was only a kid when he came over, so maybe he'd have been OK and you'd only stick the grownups in the sweatshops?

You never seem to think about these issues in terms of them being real people with real feelings. Perhaps you are so bitter and selfish and greedy that you can't see that anyone else could act from any other motive?

	26-11-2002 21:01									#103
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quote: Originally posted by MikeH Cali: Again from Laz's post above: Asylum applicants are not allowed to work for the first six months of their asylum application date.

Thats ridiculous. What a waste of labour.

	26-11-2002 21:26									#104
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I agree. Taz might be able to offer some insight into why it's like that though.

	26-11-2002 21:32									#105
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When I first moved here I had to wait 8 months before I was allowed to work, despite being married to a US citizen!

	26-11-2002 21:35									#106
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It's the same for a friend of mine in NZ at the moment.

	26-11-2002 21:39									#107
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Yeah, NZ is just as tough as the US on these matters.

Of course the US is only tough on those who respect its immigration laws. If you come in illegally they might give you a green card anyway.

	26-11-2002 23:00									#108
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I don't see why the modern nations have any problem with immigration. Native born citizens can usually get high-paying jobs because they've had excellent education opportunities, while immigrants from poor countries (around where I live that's mostling El Salvador and Vietnam) have the opportunity to do all the work that people born here don't want to do. It gives America an inexhaustible source of cheap labor, without meaningfully threatening the job security of people born here.

If the BNP doesn't see the benefits to open flows of labor, then they're a bunch of dunces.

	26-11-2002 23:14									#109
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Nice backtrack however. Looks like Spinky's no longer objecting to asylum seekers, but the law preventing them from working.

Now how many other of those prejudices are just basically founded on being ignorant?

	26-11-2002 23:15									#110
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(Note to self- read the last page, you fool).

	27-11-2002 00:42									#111
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I am not a racsist. Racsism is when you hate or believe that someone is inferior to you. I have never once said that.

	27-11-2002 03:06									#112
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quote: Originally posted by MikeH I agree. Taz might be able to offer some insight into why it's like that though.

No actually I can't, really but if you PM me, I might privately.

Rage - nice tactic to let the thread flow and hope no-one remembers what we were discussing but taking you right back to your statements, please explain how you can claim not to be racist if you believe it is right to deny certain people basic human rights afforded others simply on the basis of their nationality or ethnic background?

	27-11-2002 04:14									#113
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Of course the US is only tough on those who respect its immigration laws. If you come in illegally they might give you a green card anyway.

Oh *****, *****, *****. And who is better off after a year, you or someone who snuck in illegally?

You know, without the millions of unducmented workers in the US, you would have any strawberries, and all your produce would be horrendously expensive, and lawns would go unmanicured and rich people would have to clean their own houses (okay, maybe that last bit isn't so bad). We need those workers. That's why they can find jobs in the first place.

	27-11-2002 05:03									#114
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One problem there Felch X. We have enough workers in England to fill the Jobs without the immigrants. Just look at some of our big cities , they have unemployment from 5-10% officially, after blair's fiddles, it's a lot more!!

When I was in between jobs i've washed dishes to tide the finances through, but even that wasnt easy to come by!!

	27-11-2002 05:05									#115
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I do agree that the level of employment that is claimed is complete bull...it is very, very hard to get a decent job...

	27-11-2002 07:37									#116
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I confess there have been times reading this thread when I am heartily glad I emigrated. With open eyes, of course, fully cognizant of Australia's history, and disapproving of the Howard government's blatant demagoguery and opportunism re: asylum seekers.

I marched against the likes of the BNP and the 'National' Front in Coventry, in the 1970s and 1980s. Nothing I have read since then has convinced me that they have changed from being rent-a-fascist organisations, and that however much they attempt to adapt to the prevailing political climate ( their going 'Green' in the mid to late 80s was very amusing) , they will always be the parties appealing to the bottom-feeding know nothings who want simple answers to complex questions. Crime? Must be immigrants. Or blacks. Or better, both. Drugs? Same thing. Housing? Taxes? Foreign policy? Blame it all on a different religion, culture or skin colour.

People like Boddington and Rage make me ashamed to be British- of course, with the proviso that my parents were Irish immigrants, who did the jobs that British people didn't want to do. A triumph for democracy? It defaecates on democracy. It makes me angry that in the new South Africa people queued for over a day (and more, in some cases) to exercise their hard won right to vote, yet so many people in Blackburn couldn't be bothered, and so an unrepresentative racist minority can trumpet a victory that was nothing of the sort.

Colour my Union Jack- red, white, blue and BLACK.

	27-11-2002 07:52									#117
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quote: Originally posted by Rothy One problem there Felch X. We have enough workers in England to fill the Jobs without the immigrants. Just look at some of our big cities , they have unemployment from 5-10% officially, after blair's fiddles, it's a lot more!! When I was in between jobs i've washed dishes to tide the finances through, but even that wasnt easy to come by!!

Immigrants don't steal jobs though is the thing. More people means more consumers means bigger markets means more jobs. It's no mistake that places with booming populations have booming economies, while places with declining populations have declining economies. In general more people are good for an economy - it's only when the government keeps them from working that you have problems.

	27-11-2002 14:13									#118
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quote: Originally posted by molly bloom I confess there have been times reading this thread when I am heartily glad I emigrated. With open eyes, of course, fully cognizant of Australia's history, and disapproving of the Howard government's blatant demagoguery and opportunism re: asylum seekers. I marched against the likes of the BNP and the 'National' Front in Coventry, in the 1970s and 1980s. Nothing I have read since then has convinced me that they have changed from being rent-a-fascist organisations, and that however much they attempt to adapt to the prevailing political climate ( their going 'Green' in the mid to late 80s was very amusing) , they will always be the parties appealing to the bottom-feeding know nothings who want simple answers to complex questions. Crime? Must be immigrants. Or blacks. Or better, both. Drugs? Same thing. Housing? Taxes? Foreign policy? Blame it all on a different religion, culture or skin colour. People like Boddington and Rage make me ashamed to be British- of course, with the proviso that my parents were Irish immigrants, who did the jobs that British people didn't want to do. A triumph for democracy? It defaecates on democracy. It makes me angry that in the new South Africa people queued for over a day (and more, in some cases) to exercise their hard won right to vote, yet so many people in Blackburn couldn't be bothered, and so an unrepresentative racist minority can trumpet a victory that was nothing of the sort. Colour my Union Jack- red, white, blue and BLACK.

	27-11-2002 15:01									#119
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quote: Originally posted by Rothy One problem there Felch X. We have enough workers in England to fill the Jobs without the immigrants. Just look at some of our big cities , they have unemployment from 5-10% officially, after blair's fiddles, it's a lot more!! When I was in between jobs i've washed dishes to tide the finances through, but even that wasnt easy to come by!!

We have massive skill shortages in key areas of public service because the wages aren't high enough. Jobs that people from overseas are filling more and more often.

eg. It's something like 25% of all nurses now and 50% of all new nurses.

	27-11-2002 19:50									#120
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Oh *****, *****, *****. And who is better off after a year, you or someone who snuck in illegally?

Me of course, isn't that the way it should be? Or do you believe in coddling lawbreakers?

quote: You know, without the millions of unducmented workers in the US, you would have any strawberries, and all your produce would be horrendously expensive, and lawns would go unmanicured and rich people would have to clean their own houses (okay, maybe that last bit isn't so bad). We need those workers. That's why they can find jobs in the first place.

Fine, provide them with working visas after screening them then. Don't just let them in and then reward them for breaking the law.