23-11-2002 20:46									#1
	Plotting: The Legoland Alliance Tired of ads?

Hi, I think we need some clear light brought upon the alliance
with our friends, the Legomen...
We need to know what we can expect from them:



1. Ok, they say they are builders. So they will perhaps try to build wonders earlier than others. We can try to ask them which one and make an agreement? So that we can also build one.



2. Military. Is this supposed to be a mutual defensive pact?
If it is, then we should perhaps make sure they contribute to the defense too. They should prepare to intervene effectivly on our behalf, instead of just constructing a lot of nice things for them selves. We also need to build nice things!
So let's not be their armoury.



3. Research. This has been mentioned before. Should we coordinate our programme with them? And then persuade them to do most of the intellectual work, while we make pesetas?
(it's easy for both parts to pull down the silder)



4. Colonization of land. We should try to compete (friendly though) with them in this area, rather than cooperate too much.
If we start out close together that is. What do you think?
Exchange world map, or what?



5. Relationship temperature. Will they still love us ?
Or will all this plotting cause them to break our nice alliance?
(if they do, they suck... and I'll grab a scythe and join the militia)

Attachment: legotryne.gif
This has been downloaded 2 time(s).

	23-11-2002 22:08									#2
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Rat...Plague Rat...I'll try and answer some questions (though I am only a squid salesman with a gigantic fortune).

1) Of course we should. We need wonders early on to allow ourselves to build up our culture. Without culture, our squid trading empire will never thrive! Uh...I mean...

2) No. We should not build them any military units unless they are at war and they beg for it. Then, we must sign an alliance and thrash our enemy in coordination with these fellows. But, I think that if we end up finding them nearby, they should build us a group of Numidian Mercenaries to be strung out patrolling the borders, to attack or defend against enemies. It makes up in some ways for actually giving up Carthage...

3) We should try to do a lot of our own research work, as I do think that continually bartering for their research will cost us in squid revenue...I mean in gold.

4) We should exchange world maps, of course, but we must also be quick to colonize as much as possible to be able to get into the next age with a sizable country.

5) I really don't know. Something tells me deep down inside that we must always remain on our guard where they are concerned, especially in the year 990 AD.

Hernan de History Guy Calamari
Squid Salesman Extraordinair

	24-11-2002 04:17									#3
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3) We should coordinate with them. If our two civs each research a different tech and then trade the two at completion we can effectively double our research pace.

Then we can let the warmongers fight our Musketmen with their Horsemen all day.

	27-11-2002 01:44									#4
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quote: Originally posted by History Guy 3) We should try to do a lot of our own research work, as I do think that continually bartering for their research will cost us in squid revenue...I mean in gold.

We just have to pretend like we are doing the job,
and the job will get done by others...

Ok, what I meant:
If we do as the Legoland treaty states, and exchange all techs...
(interpreted by the Thrumble here as a lucrative mutual research project) Then we might have 2 techs for 1, if they get more techs.
Mutually, they will have 2 techs for 1, if we get more techs.
This is just what can be interpreted.

So pulling down the slider to *max_gold* for a while would give us the nice ducates,
and they will give us more techs, believing we are just poor. Hmm, perhaps they won't do the same?

If we can formally question the Legoland how they interpret the tech-clause of our treaty, we can ask them if it's gonna be n:m exchange...

	27-11-2002 01:52									#5
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For me it seems pretty clear that they pretend to change technologies of similar value...

	27-11-2002 02:04									#6
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Well, the latest news about Legoland is that they are voting for a constitution right now.
I sure hope this constitution won't obstruct our possibilities
of exploiting this alliance... Perhaps they will tell us about it?

	27-11-2002 02:30									#7
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Guys,

It's extremely unlikely that we'll start right next to Legoland (it would be AWESOME if we did, both for tech-exchange as well as geopolitics). If we're so lucky as to do so, however, each civ would go up a different "branch" of the techtree and exchange techs from our respective branches as well as any that we managed to purchase from other civs. To maximize this, we might also try to buy different techs so that we don't buy the same techs twice from civs outside our agreement.

However, I give it a roughly 50/50 chance that we won't contact Legoland before the end of the Ancient Age and perhaps not even until the late Middle Age. They may be on a different continent or may just be on a different island in our archiapelago. If so, relying on Legoland to coordinate with us in research would obviously be folly.

Our "alliance" with them won't become important until we come into contact. I certainly hope that comes SOONER rather than later in the game, but it's really going to up to luck.

	27-11-2002 02:36									#8
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Yeah, starting location will be the key to all of these niceties...
What about culturally linked? Will they start near us then?

	27-11-2002 02:40									#9
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Well, we're not doing culturally linked, but Carthage is mediterean and we're European. That tends to mean, from what I've seen of Civ3 games (especially PTW, where that option works properly), that they may be on a seperate island/continent, but typically one within reach of our own. Or, if there aren't enough European civs or Classical civs for each to have their own continent, they tend to get placed on the same continent.

	27-11-2002 20:09									#10
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One point for me, is the map trading thing. We have to know whats in our territory is something we do not want to keep secret as long as possible from others. If there is nothing exciting there, then trade it, but if there are some great resources or luxuries that we want to colonize, then we better hide it even from Legoland. You never know who they'll trade it to after that.

Also, where can I review this treaty?

	27-11-2002 20:40									#11
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quote: Originally posted by jdjdjd One point for me, is the map trading thing. We have to know whats in our territory is something we do not want to keep secret as long as possible from others. If there is nothing exciting there, then trade it, but if there are some great resources or luxuries that we want to colonize, then we better hide it even from Legoland. You never know who they'll trade it to after that. Also, where can I review this treaty?

quote: Togas, Great Lord of the Land, did proclaim the following to his loyal followers Members of the Roleplay team. We have officially come to an agreement with Legoland about Carthage. Here is the wording of the agreement: quote: We, the Roleplay team, hereby promise that we will give the Legoland team the civilization of Carthage and we will cooperate with research (each team researching different paths and then trading). In exchange, Legoland promises to not declare war on or join in any war against the Roleplay Civilization at any time prior to 1000 AD, to give the Roleplay Civilization "Most Favored Nation" trade status (which shall include selling us techs at a lower price than any other civ), and cooperate with research as explained above. Both teams also pledge to try to maintain good relations throughout the game and to attempt to cooperate for the mutual protection and success of our civilizations. I also asked them to keep the agreement a secret between us. Hopefully they will live up to that part as well. Hopefully, so shall we. Anyhow, Spain is official. We "gave" Carthage to the Builders after much discussion, etc, etc. We now need to get our team icon finalized and continue our Spanish strategy. --Togas

Do people have any thoughts on the idea of placing a high emphisis on early-game exploration? We have more at stake than most of the other teams do (due to our alliance with Legoland), and if we could become the first to establish contact with all Civilizations, we could use the situation very much to our advantage. (In my opinion, we already have a diplomatic advantage -- meeting all the civs as early as possible would allow us to exploit it). Of course, this may simply not be possible, especially if we wind up with a water map, but I think it'd be worth a try.

Could someone who knows remind me what Spain's attributes are? (I'm off to go in search of information on all the PTW civs, but I most need to know about Spain...)

-- adaMada

	27-11-2002 21:04									#12
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quote: Originally posted by adaMada Do people have any thoughts on the idea of placing a high emphisis on early-game exploration? We have more at stake than most of the other teams do (due to our alliance with Legoland), and if we could become the first to establish contact with all Civilizations, we could use the situation very much to our advantage. (In my opinion, we already have a diplomatic advantage -- meeting all the civs as early as possible would allow us to exploit it). Of course, this may simply not be possible, especially if we wind up with a water map, but I think it'd be worth a try. Could someone who knows remind me what Spain's attributes are? (I'm off to go in search of information on all the PTW civs, but I most need to know about Spain...) -- adaMada

Spain is commercial and religious. Also, about the exploration, I think our Great Leader has already stated that he wants to focus on making contacts early on. I think it should be a priority.

	27-11-2002 21:31									#13
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Thanks adaMada, and remember adaMada spelt backwards is adaMada.

and I agree we should push our exploration.

	29-11-2002 03:03									#14
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Well, if we happen to start close to them Legomen...
- We will have to be a bit overREXy !

Colonizing land by founding new cities is the prime goal early on.
If we start close to any other tribeteam, perhaps being a bit overREXy, and also a bit aggressive in our diplomacy?

To say to our competitor in no man's land...
"Stay away from those horses, or i'll shot you in the face with 5 rapid arrows!"... could be going a bit too far.


Anyway, this is an important stage in the game!
And taking land fast, even aggressively, is probably going to lead us successfylly ahead. We can try to avoid war also by offering to leave them in peace on certain conditions.


We can say: "There are fine horses down south!
So leave these iron deposit alone and go south instead?
Settling here will only cause trouble...", or something like that?