24-11-2002 00:52									#1
	Discussions on how to best manage the slaves Enter the AD-FREE zone

Until a great Slave Master makes himself known to me, I will manage the slaves that belong to our civilization. I have started this informal discussion with all of the other land owners and wealthy families in the tribe, as I know that many of you also own slaves and I would like to collect advice on how to best manage them.

These are my goals:
Feed the people of Madrid so that our population can quickly grow.
Increase Madrid's production
Bring luxuries to the people
Connect our cities and pave the way for rapid expansion.

These goals must be prioritized. Which is the most important? I hereby ask for your advice.

OOC: I also need to know how to take screenshots. If someone could post or PM me about that, please do.

--Togas

	24-11-2002 01:45									#2
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as mayor of Madrid, i humbly suggest we road and mine atleast 2 tiles, to get a good productive effort out of the city ASAP.

It will allow for the city to become an early powerhouse.

After that, I suggest roads for faster settlement

	24-11-2002 04:04									#3
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I would say connecting cities and luxuries/resources would be the highest priority.

	24-11-2002 04:22									#4
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As I argued in the other thread, I agree with what Ninot has suggested in this thread: at least 2 mines, otherwise lots of roads.

After that, use any workers almost exclusively for REX (have them building roads).

	24-11-2002 05:49									#5
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As we are not industrious, we need to build more workers. I think that one or two by city is necessary at the beginning; after it depends only of the slaves captured.

	24-11-2002 06:11									#6
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quote: Originally posted by DAVOUT As we are not industrious, we need to build more workers. I think that one or two by city is necessary at the beginning; after it depends only of the slaves captured.

1-2 per city is too many in REX mode. Workers should be doing little more than building a few mines near the capital city and then building little other than roads between cities (to expediate REX).

city walls, temples, granaries, settlers, barracks, and spearmen are the main things to build in REX mode. You turn one city into a worker factory once you can afford to do that w/o slowing down REX.

Of course, that's against the AI... we might have to tweak this REX strategy to account for the fact that we may want to build more spearmen and city walls than we otherwise would.

	24-11-2002 06:20									#7
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Difficult to forget the AI , he ?

It takes four turns to road a tile of grassland or desert, and there are many many tiles to road in REX. All cities MUST be connected at the end of the expansion. Anyway that can be calculated.

	24-11-2002 06:23									#8
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It's three turns, actually.

	24-11-2002 06:35									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Thrumble I would say connecting cities and luxuries/resources would be the highest priority.

We can forget connecting luxuries until we have the resources done, and our cities are getting large enough that they need some more happiness. Which of course shouldn't happen until after REX.

Another early game strat that may not work too well against human opponents - the idea of building cities where the lux/resources etc are and filling in the gaps later. Now this always works becasue the people of the region will feel that these new authorities are invaders and any outposts they may settle will inevitably succumb to our superior traditions. BUT, with the human opponents, this will be recognised and I can see enough of a massive campaign by the newcomers to foster enough patriotic feeling in these nuisance cities that these cities remain distinct from our lands, and this may prove problematic, allowing the enemy an outpost potentially right where they can invade - think of the Brits in Gibraltar. We must ensure that Spain does not have another Gibraltar!

	24-11-2002 06:46									#10
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Brilliant MrWhereItsAt. We must forget most of those strategies developped for the AI opponent.

	24-11-2002 20:36									#11
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[OOC]
Are we playing the first turn before the 1 dec? In this way we could figure exactly what to do with our slaves
[/OOC]

	28-11-2002 00:55									#12
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Following the decision of our great leader choosing me as the first Slave Master of our civilization, I would like to open a consultive debate on which is the best way to manage our slaves. Remember that the directives who should guide our public works are:

First, Improve the production & growth of Madrid.
Second, Create roads towards future city sites.
Third, Connect our cities together via roads.
Fourth, link up resources and luxuries that are deemed vital to our national interests.

Said that, I've been told that there is a new technique that our slaves could perform called "irrigation". So if we are lucky and discover very fertile lands near Madrid I will send our slaves to irragate that lands so our people con quickly grow and expand.

After that or if it isn't any extremely fertile land near I will send them to build mines at the hills so we can build better tools.

Third in priotity is to build roads to help our explorers boldly go when no spaniard has gone before.

	28-11-2002 02:27									#13
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First turn won't be until Dec 1 or perhaps after. The other teams are still fussing around about their civ choices and governments. They're not ready to begin.

--Togas

	28-11-2002 03:49									#14
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quote: Originally posted by oliverfa Said that, I've been told that there is a new technique that our slaves could perform called "irrigation". So if we are lucky and discover very fertile lands near Madrid I will send our slaves to irragate that lands so our people con quickly grow and expand. After that or if it isn't any extremely fertile land near I will send them to build mines at the hills so we can build better tools. Third in priotity is to build roads to help our explorers boldly go when no spaniard has gone before.

Bonus tiles first. Thank you

	28-11-2002 08:39									#15
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quote: Originally posted by oliverfa Said that, I've been told that there is a new technique that our slaves could perform called "irrigation".

What is this “irrigation”? Can you explain it for me? Does it work on rocks? What does it do for wheat? It sounds suspiciously like the word we use in my valley back home for when we have to go behind the Tavern because we’ve had too much wine

	01-12-2002 02:22									#16
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quote: Originally posted by ruby_maser Bonus tiles first. Thank you

[OOC]
Of course, every civ player knows that there is no point in irrigating not bonus tiles under despotism
[OOC]

[RP]
I would like to give you my fellow tribesmen a more detailed plan about my intentions about the production of our slaves, but the truth is that no tribemen has ever adventured outside Madrid, so we do not have information on what's out there. We'll have to wait until we receive the first reports to be more precise.
[/RP]

	01-12-2002 02:25									#17
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by pikesfan What is this “irrigation”? Can you explain it for me? Does it work on rocks? What does it do for wheat? It sounds suspiciously like the word we use in my valley back home for when we have to go behind the Tavern because we’ve had too much wine

You know? My uncle Pepe likes to play with water. He has a little piece of land next to his cave and made some sort of paths for the water to come into. Now the plants grow quicker and stronger inside that piece of land. We still have to try it in rocks, but I'm afraid that our slaves don't have the tools to make paths in rocks...

	03-12-2002 21:29									#18
	To road or to irrigate. That's the question Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

This morning while I was looking for a new assistant aften the sudden death of the previous one a group of tribesmen leadered by Sr. ruby_maser have come to my home to have a chat about the slaves orders.

They have conducted an in depth investigation about the issue. And that's what they have concluded:

quote: If we irrigate the plains w/ cow tile first and switch to work it once the irrigation is done (and road it second), we will get our population growth in 9 turns instead of 10 due to the benefit of the extra food bail per turn coming 3 turns earlier. The only detractor I can see is the 4 turns of lost revenue the road would provide if we did it first, but our proximity to the river is already providing revenue that we would not otherwise have, and that should make up for it. It is a small thing, I know, but I believe those little advantages might be the edge we need

For what I've seen at the picture of madrid the tile cannot be irrigated (no fresh water nearby), but I'm still trying to upgrade to 1.14f (so no operative copy of PTW) so my asumptions can be wrong. Can someone with acces to the SAVE tell me if the tile can be irrigated or not?

Anyway, feel free to post any coment about what the slaves should do/have done any time from now on.

	03-12-2002 21:44									#19
	Re: To road or to irrigate. That's the question Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by oliverfa For what I've seen at the picture of madrid the tile cannot be irrigated (no fresh water nearby), but I'm still trying to upgrade to 1.14f (so no operative copy of PTW) so my asumptions can be wrong. Can someone with acces to the SAVE tell me if the tile can be irrigated or not?

Actually, that was a concern of mine too, Oliver. The river is there but the hills always confuse me as to whether it will actually register as irrigatable (is that a word?)

Anyway, I was reassured though by our Great Leader that it was possible. If not, well, I am just a simple clairvoyant halfwit: I foresee many things... half are wrong

	03-12-2002 21:49									#20
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Señor Oliverfa, when we contructed Madrid, we had the foresight to run tributaries from the nearby river throughout the city, essentially irrigating the city. Since the livestock fields are so close to the city, we should be able to irrigate them.

[OOC]
AFAIK, we should be able to irrigate those plains, as a city square is automatically irrigated, and it is next to the city.
[/OOC]

	03-12-2002 21:56									#21
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quote: Originally posted by dejon Señor Oliverfa, when we contructed Madrid, we had the foresight to run tributaries from the nearby river throughout the city, essentially irrigating the city. Since the livestock fields are so close to the city, we should be able to irrigate them.

In that case I should send an emissary inmediatly with the new orders. Thank you for your information.

	04-12-2002 04:06									#22
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

THe city square is automatically irrigated when it is adjacient to water. However, our city is on a hill, and in civ 3 hills cannot be irrigated. So, is it or isn't it irrigated.

If so, we should have no problem with the cows. If now, build a mine and then clear the deer forests and irrigate there. It will take a while, but it will be worht it as a deer (game) tile in woods is 2 food adn 2 sheilds, in plains it is 3 food. More than enough to provide what you are looking for. Also, the grain / wheet should be available by the time we get done with the cows.... so we have that as an option also.

I recomend that after our first couple of warriors are built, instead of a settler, we pop out a worker first, then move full into rex. this way we can get moving on those improvements faster which will pay off in the long run.

	04-12-2002 04:15									#23
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If you check out the InsideMadrid screenshot(in the 4000BC - Starting Location thread), you'll see that we are getting 2 food from the hill - not possible without irrigation afaik.

	04-12-2002 04:37									#24
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As the city is next to a river, all squares next to the city which it is possible to irrigate can be irrigated.

	04-12-2002 05:44									#25
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sad news...

I set up a scenario based on everything we can see and reasonably infer from the .sav file, and it looks like the cow tile is not going to be able to be irrigated.

The game I set up had, to the best of my knowledge, exactly what we can see in the opening screenshots, and it would not give me the option to irrigate

This will slow us down marginally until we can get the wheat bonus up and irrigated.... which may be a good chunk of turns unless people want to beeline for it now. Now the options are not so clear to get a high yield on our food production.

I hope I set it up wrong, but I don't think I did. More to come...

	04-12-2002 14:50									#26
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We are still trying to realize the dead of my former assistant, but at least we are managing to rebuild our information channels.

[OOC: I reinstalled PTW and applied directly the 1.14f patch instead of applying first the 1.04f and then the 1.14f. Now I only need to acces the save. If anyone can e-mail it to me (oliverfa@arrakis.es) I will be very grateful]

After all that discussion I don't know if the land will de irrigatable or not, but now it seems they aren't. So if they really are not irrigatable I see two main alternatives:

Alternative 1: Build a road at the tile and then go for something else.

Alternative 2: Forget about the road and go directly to the wheat lands, either directly without building roads or taking some time building roads on our way to the wheat.

Last edited by OliverFA on 04-12-2002 at 15:00

	06-12-2002 21:25									#27
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A road will help me move my Entertainment Group out to the workers in the Ranches at a faster pace and we could then Return to Madrid sooner, too.

[OOC]
more roads=more trade=faster research and/or more money
[/ooc]

Senor Iwana Eta Tamali

	06-12-2002 23:10									#28
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The slaves are building a road because Madrid's surroundings were too steep to allow irrigation from Rio Tajo. The slaves should have finished within a few turns, now the question is : what next? I'd say we should build a mine in this cows tile to get a great production when Madrid will reach pop 2, then quickly go to the wheat fields (without building a road) to irrigate them and fasten Madrid's growth so it can easily produce settlers.

	06-12-2002 23:19									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Crousto I'd say we should build a mine in this cows tile to get a great production when Madrid will reach pop 2, then quickly go to the wheat fields (without building a road) to irrigate them and fasten Madrid's growth so it can easily produce settlers.

Agree.

--Togas

	07-12-2002 00:05									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Crousto I'd say we should build a mine in this cows tile to get a great production when Madrid will reach pop 2, then quickly go to the wheat fields (without building a road) to irrigate them and fasten Madrid's growth so it can easily produce settlers.

OOC

But Señor Mendoza, if we built a mine at that place the tile will produce exactly the same output that the tile Madrid is working at that this moment. Since the pop. expansion coincides with the cultural expansion, I supose that Governor Ninot will want to work the wheat tile, so no real need of the mine.

On the other hand the mine would take us several precious turns that we could use to irrigate the wheat tile and get extra food. More food means quicker grow and a settler much sooner if we decide to go for that, or extra production and commerce if the settler is delayed a bit. Anyway we get more of everything if the next job to do is irrigating the wheat.