26-11-2002 06:03									#91
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No, not really.

	26-11-2002 06:03									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Ming Don't you remember Mora's FAMOUS press conference where he is standing up there saying "That was just SICK" when the New Orleans fans started cheering when their awful quarterback got knocked out of a game.

Is that the same one where he said "We played like poo."?




ACK!

	26-11-2002 07:52									#93
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Only a Philly fan cheers the injury of a player.

Correction, only a Philly fan cheers the injury of a Cowboy.

The dif being one is a player and the other is a stinkin' Cowboy.

j/k

	26-11-2002 09:36									#94
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski Is that the same one where he said "We played like poo."? ACK!

It may have been, because they did play like crap.
And half the words in the press conference came out as "beeps"

	26-11-2002 09:44									#95
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quote: Originally posted by Ming It may have been, because they did play like crap. And half the words in the press conference came out as "beeps"

Irmember that one especially because he didn't say ****, he said poo.




ACK!

	26-11-2002 10:28									#96
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Only a Philly fan cheers the injury of a player.

Isn't it ironic then that the Philly quarterback was injured and left the field in the 49ers-Eagles Game?

	26-11-2002 10:34									#97
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Philly can't catch a break when it comes to keeping QB's healthy... not that it matters since they slaughtered SF anyway.

The good news is, I got enough points out of Garcia to beat Walrus in the Apolyton Fantasy league...

	26-11-2002 10:44									#98
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Philly played pretty well, although Garcia was far from his best.

	26-11-2002 10:47									#99
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Well... SF got down early, and that didn't help much at all. Plus, there were a lot of dropped passes tonight and special teams killed them. Overall, not a good night for the whole team

	26-11-2002 14:45									#100
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OK I have to defend Sapp- although he got no fantasy points.

That was a legal hit. No question. Although it almost looked like he led with his helmet just a little bit. but anyways.

The hit was legal.

I'm not sure what he was celebrating. But I thought he was gloating over the fact his defense just scored a defensive touchdown- not that he just about killed a player on the field.

In any case the head coach was wrong to confront Warren Sapp. How can you say that was OK? He's a head coach for crying out loud! It's beneath him to sink down to the level of the players. You lose respect. You should utilize the chaing of command. He should have talked to the Bucs defensive coordinator or head coach Jon Gruden. Coaches should not be associated with players of another team.

	26-11-2002 15:17									#101
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I want to talk more about Kurt Warner.

Great numbers. But he still struggles with turnovers. Although the box score only shows 1 interception he also had that crucial fumble at the end of the game.

but lets face it. This wasn't a true test. A true test would have Marshall Faulk in the line up. But of course Faulk was in the line up the first 4 weeks. This is what pissed me off about St. Louis. They thought they were so good they didn't have to run the ball. So Faulk is useless if they go back to their old game plan of pass-pass-pass. They need to run Faulk to win.

but the game is more about numbers. He is the QB. He has a leadership role. And I don't think he showed enough leadership against Washington.

But there is more. I think confidence is vital factor in winning. A team has to have confidence in their coach and in their QB. Look at the TB Buccaneers. Essentually the same team as last year. But the team believes it can win with Jon Gruden as coach.

St. Louis had a similar feeling with Bulger. It believed it could win with Bulger at QB. So it really isn't about QB numbers. It's how well the team plays as a whole with the particular QB in.

	26-11-2002 18:31									#102
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From Imran:

quote: BS. You might hear this from commentators, but when the play is on the sideline and you pop someone in the middle of the field, that is dirty! And if he hit Farve instead of an OL, you bet he would have been suspended and fined big. He went headhunting and that's wrong.

1. I hear it consistently from ex-players. Locally, Doug Buffone and Dan Jiggetts. On ESPN, Tom Jackson, Mike Golic, and Terry Bradshaw. Last night on SportCenter, Ron Jaworski said that every time he threw an interception, he knew he was a marked man. That's the way the game is played.

No fine on Sapp. Legal hit. 'nuff said.

I will, however, retract my statement re the GB lineman being OK. That was a prelim report. Turns out he's out for the year with a pelvis. Bummer.

quote: Btw, I gotta love this piling up on Warner. This really is a 'what have you done for me lately' league isn't it . He only has the highest passer rating in NFL history.

Personally, I love Kurt Warner. (It's the smug Martz that I love to see fail.) But where you see "5 yards from victory," I see a key fumble. Yeah, Martz stepped up and blamed himself for a poor play call, but he didn't miss the block or fail to throw the ball away. Even with intentional grounding, they should get the game-tying field goal. Warner screwed up. Case closed.

PS Imran -- Let's not forget to get our Lombardi picks in early this week. Team Rush needs you!

	26-11-2002 18:47									#103
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quote: But I thought he was gloating over the fact his defense just scored a defensive touchdown- not that he just about killed a player on the field.

They didn't score a TD on that play. He was gloating that he killed the O lineman.

And Sherman should have gotten in Sapp's face. Someone needs to stand up to that ******* and say NO, it isn't ok.

quote: I hear it consistently from ex-players. Locally, Doug Buffone and Dan Jiggetts. On ESPN, Tom Jackson, Mike Golic, and Terry Bradshaw. Last night on SportCenter, Ron Jaworski said that every time he threw an interception, he knew he was a marked man. That's the way the game is played.

No, WAS payed. The game is different today. Believe me, if he did that to Farve, he would have been fined. You DON'T go after someone on the other side of the field, obviously not involved in a tackle.

A hit can be legal AND cheap. Sapp knew the OL had no intention of making a tackle, and left his feet and sucker punch.

quote: But where you see "5 yards from victory," I see a key fumble. Yeah, Martz stepped up and blamed himself for a poor play call, but he didn't miss the block or fail to throw the ball away. Even with intentional grounding, they should get the game-tying field goal. Warner screwed up. Case closed.

How did Warner screw up? He dropped back and got hammered. That isn't his fault.

quote: PS Imran -- Let's not forget to get our Lombardi picks in early this week. Team Rush needs you!

Ooops, forgot. But Team Rush is too far to win. We're the Bengals of the league .

	26-11-2002 18:59									#104
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I must be one of the few guys at Apolyton that doesn't think Detroit foolish to kick off in overtime.
If Coach has faith in the defense, which he said he does, it's not really a bad move.
Stuff the other team, they punt, your offense comes away with better field position.


And Dissident, you're a meathead, in regard to Warner.

	26-11-2002 19:23									#105
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Actually, we had climbed into 3rd place -- before your week 12 "oops."

No big deal. But, considering we've got two DNPs in the books, third place is definitely better than Bengal status.

...more like the Jaguars or Bills maybe.

	26-11-2002 19:26									#106
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3rd?



Ooops, sorry... I just forgot.

	26-11-2002 19:30									#107
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BTW, Imran, if that Sapp hit is really not the way the game is played in 2002, why is the rule unchanged? Why is no fine forthcoming? The league immediately issued a statement saying it a was a legal hit. It's a violent, dangerous sport. People do get hurt.

I understand that you think Sapp is a jerk with no class. But let's not confused that with the rules.txt of the NFL.

A final shot at Warner -- He has got to know there is pressure coming, and has got to be able to unload before he's hit. The play call was bad, someone missed a block -- all true. But ultimately, the ball was in Warner's hands. The "best QB in history" failed in the clutch.

	26-11-2002 19:34									#108
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Just because there is no fine, doesn't mean the play wasn't dirty. There is plenty of leagal hits that are 'dirty'. People do get hurt, but nailing someone not even close to the play and not even doing anything is a bit much.

I'll say it again, if he nailed Farve in the same way, he'd be suspended for two games and fined. It is just a prejudice against OL.

As for Warner, he didn't even finish his drop! Martz called for a 5-step drop, and Arrington came from his blind side. If it was a 3 step drop, he could have gotten rid of it, but when you have a 5 step drop on a play, you HAVE to take the 5 steps, because the St. Louis offense, like most West Coast offenses, are based on timing.

	26-11-2002 20:46									#109
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And winning is based on execution.

	26-11-2002 22:14									#110
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The QB has one responsibility in that sitaution... DON'T DO ANYTHING STUPID! And he did... Bad play call... YEP... Bad execution... YEP!

Both equal a loss.

	26-11-2002 22:24									#111
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Question. Do the Rams allow Warner to call his own plays? Surely they allow him to audible out of it if need be, so he does have partial responsibility for play call. But depending on whether he calls his own plays or not he may not be the primary offender on play selection. Some culpability, but perhaps not the lion share.

As for bad execution, Imran argues the fact that execuation is not only a personal thing but is also a team performance goal. The fact that the QB in this particular play was not able to execute the designated play may or may not have anything to do with his own individual performance but moreover the performance of his "O" line.

	26-11-2002 22:36									#112
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By the way Detroit defense is ranked 30th and has allowed the most touchdowns and allowed an injured Jim Miller to score 10 unanswered points.

I don't care what his faith in his defense is. you have to look objectively how could your defense is. And Detroits defense is abysmal.

	26-11-2002 22:39									#113
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I don't think Warner calls too many of his own plays.

Peyton Manning is one of the best QB's at doing that. He audibled all the time against Philadelphia and consequently this allowed him to succeed against many blitz packages Philadelphia runs.

But I think St. Louis coaches probably have too much of an ego trip about their play calling ability to let Kurt Warner run his own plays. But I have seen Kurt Warner audible from time to time. Just not too often.

	26-11-2002 22:43									#114
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Few, if any, QB's still call the play. Most, if not all, audible.

	26-11-2002 23:55									#115
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In that situation, 17 seconds left, on the 6 yard line, I'm not sure most coaches would allow their QBs, even a 2 time MVP to call his own play.

	27-11-2002 00:17									#116
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In that situation, 17 seconds left, on the 6 yard line, the QB is in control of the team's destiny. Even if he chooses not to audible, he should be aware enough to throw the ball away.

Not at all bitter about the loss -- to Danny Wuerffel, I might add -- are we, Imran?

	27-11-2002 00:22									#117
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Warners most important task at this point is to get rid of the ball. Sure they were all over him, but it's not like he shouldn't have been expecting it. He knew the game situation... He knew what his responsibilites were... he lost the game. Granted, the coach decided to go for it, but I'm sure Warner would have been the first person to tell him to do so.

	27-11-2002 00:29									#118
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Well seeing how the OT John St. Clair totally blew the block, I don't see how Warner lost the game.

I don't think that every sack is the QB's fault .

And Jrabbit, why should I bit bitter about the loss? It helps the Falcons even more. What I'm bitter is that people are blaming Warner for the loss for no good reason except that he got sacked. You do realize that QB's can get sacked, right? He was supposed to have a 5 step drop, but right when he got there he got hit from his blindside.

I don't know how many super-natural QBs you've witnessed, but most QBs don't have eyes in the back of their heads.

It's just silly to place most of the blame on the QB.

	27-11-2002 03:18									#119
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Yeah I'ld blame the loss on that PSU alum, Arrington.

Kudos to a great defensive play and player.

	27-11-2002 03:46									#120
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I'm blaming Warner because he didn't do his job when it counted. The game is on the line... He knows the preasure is coming just by doing a defensive read... I don't care if it's on his blind side... His job is to get rid of the ball if the play isn't there. It's that simple. He failed. Granted, many other people failed in the game... but when it came down to it, his final failure cost them a chance at the game.