18-12-2002 11:06									#211
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You'll make it. Even I might make it.

	18-12-2002 11:09									#212
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Even I might make it, in that case.

	18-12-2002 11:23									#213
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Drogue: congrats again in this thread. Can't read the message on the green . Is it something peace or is it a green CND logo.

I 'll hit the five hundred at some stage, maybe by year end.

	18-12-2002 11:29									#214
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I think it's Greenpeace.

And about his rate of posting; I'm impressed. An average rate of over 10 per day, and, as you said, often quite lengthy ones too. He certainly hit the mark a lot faster than I did.

	18-12-2002 14:21									#215
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I think the high rate is partly due to being new, as time goes on it will settle down a little. Also I had 2 weeks of school with the flu, and so was almost perminantly on here.

It is Green Peace BTW, not that I ever agreed with them (They are neither Green nor Peaceful IMHO), but they are the two things I believe in most strongly.

	18-12-2002 14:26									#216
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What do you think they are, then (Greenpeace)?

	18-12-2002 14:44									#217
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Greenpeace sometimes skirts the border of "terrorist organization" . . .

	18-12-2002 14:44									#218
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Like when?

	18-12-2002 14:48									#219
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They've hijacked oil tankers, harassed whaling vessels (even though they rarely have more than rowboats), and disrupted truck routes.

	18-12-2002 14:48									#220
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Like when they didnt let us french do our nuke atomic tests in Mururoa...

bad thing is that they made it though...

	18-12-2002 15:03									#221
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Who, the French or Greenpeace?

	18-12-2002 15:31									#222
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Green Peace often campaign with violence (or passive violence, physical blockades etc), and, are anti-GM, anti-nucleur power etc., but do not provide alternatives. Nucleur power is less ecologically damaging than coal or oil or even gas, and GM has never (to my knowledge) been proved to be damaging to the environment, while having many sizable benefits (feeding much mroe of the population for instance). I think in terms of making the world Green, they harmed the cause, in loss of trust with militancy, and were never pacifists in any sense IMO. Mr President is right, they were 'on the borders of terrorism'.

	18-12-2002 21:22									#223
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quote: Originally posted by Mr. President You'll make it. Even I might make it.

Yeah, I know. It's more like a matter of time. But I had dreamed of making it before Christmas. Won't happen.

	19-12-2002 03:20									#224
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not after your unfortunate disconnection a few weeks ago.

wait...you DREAM about poly?

	19-12-2002 03:24									#225
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Hey, it's a goal like any other.

But yes, unfortunate indeed. =/

	19-12-2002 05:12									#226
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quote: Greenpeace sometimes skirts the border of "terrorist organization" . . .

In my view they do not skirt the border at all. They may have adapted some of the techniquies. But seriously, terrorrising nations, populations, kidnapping people. No not really.

Aggressive protest organisation yes. but so can be the church , trade unions and the countrytside grouping (UK)

	19-12-2002 12:51									#227
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quote: Aggressive protest organisation yes. but so can be the church , trade unions and the countrytside grouping (UK)

who says the church isn't a terrorist organization?
Scaring people like that with all the hell talk. What is more scary then eternal suffering!

	19-12-2002 13:20									#228
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All depends on waht we consider terrorism. If we take it as the word is meant to be, using terror as a political pressure, then many things become terrorism. And Greenpeace certainly not the last.

	19-12-2002 13:58									#229
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quote: who says the church isn't a terrorist organization? Scaring people like that with all the hell talk. What is more scary then eternal suffering!

quote: All depends on waht we consider terrorism. If we take it as the word is meant to be, using terror as a political pressure, then many things become terrorism. And Greenpeace certainly not the last.

Like the US government, you mean? By their own definition, they've been committing terrorism on a massive scale for decades.

	19-12-2002 14:40									#230
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I'd even say they were born as a terrorist country, since they used terror as a political pressure against England for their independence. Terror failed though, and they had to use force.
As well, resistants in Europe during WWII were terrorists, etc...
Theres always the two faces : terrorist or fighter of freedom ?
Since Greenpeace uses terror and "coup d'éclat" to promote political ideals and create a pressure, I think they can be called terrorists. The bad thing is that they certainly cannot be taken for fighters of freedom.

	19-12-2002 14:52									#231
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quote: I'd even say they were born as a terrorist country, since they used terror as a political pressure against England for their independence. Terror failed though, and they had to use force.

And they followed this up with a continuing war of expansion and genocide against westward against the Native American Indians.

quote: As well, resistants in Europe during WWII were terrorists, etc...

They generally aren't thought of as such because the Nazis began the terror first.

quote: Theres always the two faces : terrorist or fighter of freedom ? Since Greenpeace uses terror and "coup d'éclat" to promote political ideals and create a pressure, I think they can be called terrorists. The bad thing is that they certainly cannot be taken for fighters of freedom.

Quite.

	19-12-2002 15:00									#232
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quote: Like the US government, you mean? By their own definition, they've been committing terrorism on a massive scale for decades.

Or like the Firefighters strike in the UK. 'Give us more money, or we'll put peoples' lives at risk.', thats terrorism to me.

	19-12-2002 15:04									#233
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No, I'm talking about terrorism on amuch bigger scale; bombing entire cities in North Vietnam into rubble because the didn't like the government, blockading Nicaragua and aiding an internal terrorist army for the same reason, backing Nazi-esque death squads in El Salvador, deliberately bombing out most of Iraq's water filtration plants during the Gulf War, and the list goes on...

	19-12-2002 15:08									#234
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Very true. The US style government is exactly what we don't want on Chiron, and what I feel Voltaire is getting us closer and closer too

	19-12-2002 15:30									#235
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue Or like the Firefighters strike in the UK. 'Give us more money, or we'll put peoples' lives at risk.', thats terrorism to me.

In such conditions, the army is supposed to take place in case of emergency -- like when Police, Firemen, Garbage evacuators stirkes. Why the british army didnt do its job ? Was it too busy to plan irak invasion or am I just a paranoid extreme-leftist ?

	19-12-2002 15:32									#236
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Maybe they're just not as effective as actual firefighters, so people's lives would still be being put at risk?

	19-12-2002 15:35									#237
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I believe the budget of army is far more expensive than the budget of firefighter. Its just they never really trained the army to fight fire, when they should have, since its the army duty to be ready for any emergency.

	19-12-2002 15:42									#238
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They're onyl meant to be stand-ins if the regular emergency services aren't there, so I think it's understandable that they weren't trained quite so extensively. If the army can do anything the others can do, why bother having the others at all?

	19-12-2002 15:45									#239
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They should be capable to do everything, but with less "professionalism". I'm quite positive there is a firefighter section in the army, though.
And even if its understandable that they arent as trained as firemen, its unfair to say firemen behaved as terrorists.

	19-12-2002 16:11									#240
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They did step in, with 50 year old 'Green-Goddesses' for fire engines (top speed 35mph) and about 1/3 as much troops as firefighters. Unions, and strikes, are IMO just like cartels. Cartels try to keep prices up unnaturally (as in higher than they would be with a true FM or Planned economy) and unions try to keep wages up unnaturally. However this is getting a little off topic. Barkeep, I need a black-stuff to clear my head.

So... Anbody seen Pande's latest film?