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The Andy-Man
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Tory Party of 'Poly
Jul 2001
time: 05:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Azazel
RACE you said RACE!!!! We're talking about a CULTURE, a NATION. Jews have in part the same origins, and in part not. We don't care. What we do care is about culture. Our culture is quite similar to the culture of europe and the US, but is a bit different, and we want that little difference to remain. I am not talking about The guys in black. I share less with them than with the general american. I am talking about the everage Israeli or regular jew in the world. |
Well sorry, but the general way this topic is presented makes me think more of race, becuase a (imo) a Jew in the USA is an American, not a Jew, same for everywhere in the world (even isreal). So when someone speaks of 'international Jewry', I instantly think of race, as whenever someone says that, they are refering to the Jewish race. Cultures are sub groups of nations, and external culturels living in a nation will ventually be assimilated (look at Britain - vikings, saxons, etc). And there is no 'Jewish NAtion' as such. There is Isreal, but I don't consider a country a religeon, you can be isreali, but not Jewish, just like you can be italian but not catholic.
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Sonic
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Vilnius, Lithuania
Dec 2001
time: 07:24
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Azazel, yes, the country belongs to someone. It's either people (under direct democracy), either some royal family (under monarchy), either some dictator (under totalytarism).
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Vesayen
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quote:
Originally posted by The Andy-Man
This sounds good to me, more inter marriage means that discrimination is on the downfall. I mean, if a jew complains about this then its rediculous becuase its like saying Jews should only marry Jews, which is verging on racism imo.
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Thats not racist.......thats not saying non Jews are bad, it is just saying we have an obligation to God to marry other Jews, dosent mean we think were better then non Jews, or that their not worthy being married to.
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Vesayen
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quote:
Originally posted by The Andy-Man
But in a modern world we cannot think like this, marrying people simpley becuase of their religeous position IS racist to a degree, though focusing on religeon and not race as such, and even if it dosn't mean jews don't think that non jews are bad, it appears that they do. And it stops intergration of society (take BRent Cross in the UK, a large section of the Jewish community lives there, so they become increasingly seperated from everyone else which is a bad thing). And whats wrong with marrying into another religeon if you care about each other? Isn't that the whole point? |
To be racist means you are applying a negative conotation or hate to a group of people.
Im a religious Jews.
My best friend is(ironically) a religious Muslim who is not fasting(well up to a few hours ago) for Ramadan......
Do I think Muslims are bad?
No.
Do I think Muslims are not worth marrying?
No.
Do I think Muslims are my equal as a human being?
Yes.
Do I care about preserving my religion of Judaism?
Yes.
Do I care about doing as God has asked of my people?
Yes.
Thats why I will only marry a Jew-it has nothing to do with hatred towards anyone else.
ALSO more importantly whoever I marry I will spend the rest of my life with(hopefully).
My God is a large part of my life, marrying someone who does not believe in my God would simply NOT work, as besides the fact it would be upsetting to have a Christmas tree in my house, it would be unfair of my spouse to demand we keep a Kosher kitchen, and all the restrictions I have because im Jewish.
Your saying that this is bad because it stops assimalation and integration of Jews into mainstream society.....
Religious Jews dont WANT to be assimilated.......infact it is something we greatly dread. We want to hold onto our beliefs, our traditions, and our customs. Doing this does not mean we cant live amoungst gentiles, but it means we must live amoung other Jews as well. Im from New York, which in certain areas proboably has some of the highest Jew-Per-Mile population in the world(other then Israel), there are a good # of religious Jews in NY, but that dosent mean we ostrocize or snub out the gentiles....
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The Andy-Man
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Tory Party of 'Poly
Jul 2001
time: 05:24
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quote:
Do I care about preserving my religion of Judaism?
Yes.
Do I care about doing as God has asked of my people?
Yes. |
That is like putting God before humanity. And I am always against this view, as it does cause problems, maybe you don't see religeon as a problem, but that attitude many DO see as a problem (look at extrem islamics).
quote:
Thats why I will only marry a Jew-it has nothing to do with hatred towards anyone else. |
Nope, no hatred, but it does show discrimination (which is what I see racism as - discrimination because they are not the same as you). In this case, because they are not Jewish, you will refuse to marry them, without even the consideration, which imo, is a very bad outlook to life, and is bordering racism - weather you hate them or not, it is still a view held by over religeous ignorants.
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Vesayen
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"That is like putting God before humanity. And I am always against this view, as it does cause problems, maybe you don't see religeon as a problem, but that attitude many DO see as a problem (look at extrem islamics)."
The point of the Jewish religion(though not many know this....) is to live good lives by example, and hope the non Jews will be inspired by this example to do good.....so that kinda moots that fear.
"Nope, no hatred, but it does show discrimination (which is what I see racism as - discrimination because they are not the same as you). In this case, because they are not Jewish, you will refuse to marry them, without even the consideration, which imo, is a very bad outlook to life, and is bordering racism - weather you hate them or not, it is still a view held by over religeous ignorants."
I cannot relinquis my religious beliefs, if I share my life with someone they will be in the constant prescence of those beliefs, which come with many restrictions. Would it be fair to my spouse wife I married her and remained religious-even though that means she must live with the same obligations I do?
Its NOT descrimination because their not the same race.....its the fact that I cannot live for the rest of my life with someone who does not hold my beliefs, its an ideological thing, not a race one...
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Vesayen
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"So you try indoctrination do you? I never believed Hitler when he said 'there is a Jewish conspiracy to take over the world', but now I am reconsidering...."
Your trying to draw something evil out of this when there is nothing evil to find LOL!
God to Jewish people: Live good lives and be kind to each other and to your fellow man, and mabey one day everyone will be nice to each other:
Jews to God: Cool God-we'll get right on it!
"No you can't, she has to relinquish hers if shes not Jewish. What if you meat a non Jew you really love? Are you not prepared to giuve up your religeon to love her?"
I can love someone, but I can have obligations before love......any Jews ultimate responsability is to God, and those responsobilities are to do as he asked, if I dont marry a Jew, there may not be a Jew in the future, and who will there be to do as God asked(and what I asked he stated above-dont say it is something evil it is not).
"Is this a good example living a good life? Uncompromising, conmservative, un-willing to make sacrifices for loved ones...."
Non Jews dont have to convert to Judaism to be good in God's eyes, just be good people(the noahkide laws, which are basically dont steal, murder, or worship idols, atheism is allowd-"be good to your fellow man stuff"), but someone has to live for as an example for everyone, thats what the Jews think.
ITS NOT DESCRIMINATION!
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The Andy-Man
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Tory Party of 'Poly
Jul 2001
time: 05:24
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quote:
I can love someone, but I can have obligations before love......any Jews ultimate responsability is to God, and those responsobilities are to do as he asked, if I dont marry a Jew, there may not be a Jew in the future, and who will there be to do as God asked(and what I asked he stated above-dont say it is something evil it is not). |
Being ultimatly responsible to god is something most people with common sense dispensed with centries ago as it causes to many problems.
And so what if there isn't another Jew in the future? So what if there isn't another Pagan, or muslim or anything? Aslong as there are still people who are nice to eachother (I agree on that point of what you are saying, but every religeon says that  )
quote:
ITS NOT DESCRIMINATION! |
but describing a fall in the international JEwish population is getting very close, it is like saying there HAS to be jews SOMEWHERE, which is akin to saying Jews are the best, and deserve a privilaged place in everybodies society.
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Vesayen
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quote:
Originally posted by The Andy-Man
It is like saying there HAS to be jews SOMEWHERE, which is akin to saying Jews are the best, and deserve a privilaged place in everybodies society. |
Its not saying that Jews are the best, or have a privilaged place in everybodys society.....where the hell are you pulling that from?
Does anyone else see that lol?
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Vesayen
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quote:
Originally posted by The Andy-Man
Thats what it implies, if it didn't what else can it mean? If t wasn't saying what I said, then there is no point to the original post. |
We want to keep our religion alive because we believe we have the correct idea about God, and that idea involves doing things which help everyone the world over.
We think were right, we DONT however want to punish or fight anyone else......have you ever heard of Jewish missionary? thats the reason.....
This dosent promote elitism.....
It means we dont want to marry someone who dosent share our beliefs, as it would be unfair to force them upon someone else.....if you loved me dearly and I loved you, but I also loved God, would it be fair for you to be forced to be Kosher for my sake?
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David Floyd
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The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:24
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The number of Jews are declining? This matters why?
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Sonic
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Vilnius, Lithuania
Dec 2001
time: 07:24
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Guardian, probably. However, people wouldn't believe in God at all if they wouldn't believe that their idea of God isn't the correct one.
Personally, I'm almost guaranted that Catholics has the right idea of God and that Jesus Christ surely was messiah. However, as says the Bible, Jews won't believe into that until apocalypse, when 144'000 of them will start spreading Christianity...
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28-11-2002 02:24
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