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Eli
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Israel
Jul 2000
time: 07:24
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Tranlated from http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-2278456,00.html .
quote:
The number of Jews in the World declined to 12.9 million
Bla bla bla.
Decline in 3% in the world Jewry numbers, in comparison to last year's numbers. Bla bla, 12.9 million.
The study shows concern for the future of the Jewish community in the US that has today 5.3 million people, in comparison to 5.7 million in previous estimations.
The study estimates that the percents on inter-marriage between Jews and non-Jews stands on 50% and rising.
A similar percent exists in France and Britain. In Eastern Europe the inter-marriage percent reaches 80%.
Most of the children who are born to such couples are not grown as Jews.
Since 1970 the number of Jews in the world increased by 2%, comparing to a worldwide population increase of 60%.
Bla bla bla. The Jewish community in France that today has 500,000 people lost 20,000 in the past few years. Aproximately 600,000 Jews live today in EU countries, 450,000 in ex-Soviet Union countries, more than 400,000 in Latin America and 350,000 in Canada.
Bla.
The Jewish majority betwen the Jordan river and the sea is also in danger. Despite the fact that the number of Jews in Israel had grown by 95% since 1970.
In 2020 the percentage of Jews in Eastern Eretz Yisrael will be 47%, and by 2050 the Jews will become a 37% minority.
If the Israeli borders will be defined to the 1967 ones, the Jewish majority will remain, although lower than today's 81%. In 2020 it will stand on 74%, and the same percentage should remain in 2050.
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Discuss.
In reality the situation in Israel is even worse. The article counted as Jews the couple hundred thousands of Russian immigrants to moved to Israel thanks to Jewish relatives.
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Caligastia
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World number of whites is in decline too, but what can we do about it?
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Az
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MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:24
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oh, boo ****in' hoo! 
I read this ****ing article, just a sec ago. Do you really give a ****, anyways? a nation is not defined by 'who was your mommy or daddy' it's defined by the common values, standards, languages and tradition. WE orginated from people in this land, from people from central asia, from people from europe, just like the 'Russians', for example, have originated from both Scandinavian settlers, and explorers, and the east slavic tribes that live there. But still a single CULTURE was created, so noone cares now! Just like this, are the jews of Israel, and the world generally. NOONE cares, we have still much more in common than other people. I'd perhaps be uncomfourtable with a indian person ( for example, nothing real here. ) but this has nothing to do with the fact that he looks slightly different than me. it has to do with the fact that he speaks louder, quiter, using his hands , or with a funny accent ( to me !) ,and he doesn't speak damn hebrew, anyway! Or maybe it's his manners, which are rather weird, BUT THAT'S THE WAY THEY DO IT IN INDIA!
It's perfectly ok, to have problems with people from different cultures, but who cares who is their mommy'n'daddy?!
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Sonic
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Vilnius, Lithuania
Dec 2001
time: 07:24
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Well, Lithuanian community is also lowering... There are about 1 million of Lithuanians in USA and that is declining because of inter-national marriages. Same goes in other countries with many Lithuanians (Uruguay, Brazil, Australia, Kazakhstan, Russia, Great Britain, Germany, Sweden, Poland, Belarus has the most of Lithuanians except USA). In Lithuania number of citizens decreased from 3,75 million in 1990 to 3,5 million in 2001, but the percentage of Lithuanians increased from 79% to 82% (there are 7% of Poles and 8% of Russians and 1% of Byelorussians currently). But that percentage will decrease if immigration will continue, since people like Chechens or Afghans tends to immigrate to our country and with the imrovement of economy immigration will probably even grow...
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Eli
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Israel
Jul 2000
time: 07:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Azazel
oh, boo ****in' hoo!
I read this ****ing article, just a sec ago. Do you really give a ****, anyways? a nation is not defined by 'who was your mommy or daddy' it's defined by the common values, standards, languages and tradition. WE orginated from people in this land, from people from central asia, from people from europe, just like the 'Russians', for example, have originated from both Scandinavian settlers, and explorers, and the east slavic tribes that live there. But still a single CULTURE was created, so noone cares now! Just like this, are the jews of Israel, and the world generally. NOONE cares, we have still much more in common than other people. I'd perhaps be uncomfourtable with a indian person ( for example, nothing real here. ) but this has nothing to do with the fact that he looks slightly different than me. it has to do with the fact that he speaks louder, quiter, using his hands , or with a funny accent ( to me !) ,and he doesn't speak damn hebrew, anyway! Or maybe it's his manners, which are rather weird, BUT THAT'S THE WAY THEY DO IT IN INDIA!
It's perfectly ok, to have problems with people from different cultures, but who cares who is their mommy'n'daddy?! |
Dal, you contradict yourself.
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The Andy-Man
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Tory Party of 'Poly
Jul 2001
time: 05:24
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This sounds good to me, more inter marriage means that discrimination is on the downfall. I mean, if a jew complains about this then its rediculous becuase its like saying Jews should only marry Jews, which is verging on racism imo.
As to 'not being bought up as jews'. Thats a very medieval view on things, most christian couples don't bring their kids up christian, which means more liberal views, the kids may still be christian affiliated but not in an extreme sense, and to be honest (and i am not anti semetic or anything) othordox Judeaism is another very medieval situation, for example, not being allowed to use eecrical stuff on the sabbath, what electrical stuff was around in 500BC not to be used?
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Eli
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Israel
Jul 2000
time: 07:24
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quote:
Originally posted by The Andy-Man
As to 'not being bought up as jews'. Thats a very medieval view on things, most christian couples don't bring their kids up christian, which means more liberal views, the kids may still be christian affiliated but not in an extreme sense, |
Yes, but unlike Judaism, Christianity is a part of the US main stream culture. So those children(most of them) will keep their Christian values.
The same thing can be said about children from mixed marriages in Israel. So the mother can be Russian, but the child will grow as a Jew, the holidays in school will be Jewish, etc, etc.
But minorities, like the Jews in the US, face a problem. Every mixed generation will drift more and more towards the mainstream, which in the American case is still Christianity.
quote:
and to be honest (and i am not anti semetic or anything) othordox Judeaism is another very medieval situation, for example, not being allowed to use eecrical stuff on the sabbath, what electrical stuff was around in 500BC not to be used? |
Versions of Judaism are irrelevant, following these or another rules is also irrelevant. The decline in the number of Jews in the US is not because more people die that are born, but because people who were born to Jewish or mixed families no longer define themselves as Jews. This is the problem in my opinion.
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Az
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MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:24
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quote:
As to 'not being bought up as jews'. Thats a very medieval view on things, most christian couples don't bring their kids up christian, which means more liberal views, the kids may still be christian affiliated but not in an extreme sense, and to be honest (and i am not anti semetic or anything) othordox Judeaism is another very medieval situation, for example, not being allowed to use eecrical stuff on the sabbath, what electrical stuff was around in 500BC not to be used?
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being jewish doesn't mean to be religious. I am jewish but I don't believe in god, for example.
Eli: the russian kids that will grow up will be no different from your or my kids. They'll watch the same hebrew tv shows, and play the same games, in hebrew. arab kids will never have it , because arab and general israeli kids don't intermingle at school because the arabs choose to send their children into arab-speaking schools, and the jews into jewish speaking schools. and there you have it: differences in culture, people being in groups. I've seen myself. 'ethiopian' kids, and 'russian kids', playing. If the culture given to them by schools will be the same, and if schools and the govt. will play an important role in culture-subscribing, you will see that no problems will exist. remember in the SU? f.e. my father, has a very good georgian muslim friend. Of course, niether my father , nor the other guy are religious, and what's the most important thing is that they have the same culture. Their minds speak the same language. There are no misunderstandings in interpretation of things. They have different personalities, they're different people. But they're the best of friends. It's the common language their minds speak.
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The Andy-Man
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Tory Party of 'Poly
Jul 2001
time: 05:24
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quote:
But minorities, like the Jews in the US, face a problem. Every mixed generation will drift more and more towards the mainstream, which in the American case is still Christianity. |
If Jews in other contries are so concerned about this, LEAVE THE GODDAMN COUNTRY. Same with Muslims in Britain, so insistent on keeping their old life style, why the **** did they come here then? Itsd diffferent with jews as they only recently got a hime country, but if, as I said, what you said is a problem, don't stay in the US.
quote:
eing jewish doesn't mean to be religious. I am jewish but I don't believe in god, for example. |
But Judeaism is a religeon. Its like being muslim and not beleiveing in Allah, or Catholic and not beleiving in Jesus...
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Eli
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Israel
Jul 2000
time: 07:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Azazel
Eli: the russian kids that will grow up will be no different from your or my kids. They'll watch the same hebrew tv shows, and play the same games, in hebrew. arab kids will never have it , because arab and general israeli kids don't intermingle at school because the arabs choose to send their children into arab-speaking schools, and the jews into jewish speaking schools. and there you have it: differences in culture, people being in groups. I've seen myself. 'ethiopian' kids, and 'russian kids', playing. If the culture given to them by schools will be the same, and if schools and the govt. will play an important role in culture-subscribing, you will see that no problems will exist. remember in the SU? f.e. my father, has a very good georgian muslim friend. Of course, niether my father , nor the other guy are religious, and what's the most important thing is that they have the same culture. Their minds speak the same language. There are no misunderstandings in interpretation of things. They have different personalities, they're different people. But they're the best of friends. It's the common language their minds speak. |
Yes, of course! This is exactly what I said in the post above yours.
But the problem here in Israel is different from the problem in the exile.
Here populations dont mingle, and all Jews or part Jews will eventually drift to the mainstream which consists of a number of version of Judaism, some more religious, some less, some not at all.
But this wont happen in Europe, or the States or Argentina. People will be half Jews, quarter Jews, it doesnt matter, but they wont have that Jewish culture that even the one eigth Jews will have in Israel. They will have no connection to Am Yisrael, no connection to the land, no connection to the tradition(not necceseraly religion), they simply wont be Jews.
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28-11-2002 00:48
Nothing wrong with that though.
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