02-12-2002 14:07									#1
	I hate sim city Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Yes, you read it right, I hate sim city, the sims, and sim anything else. The open-endedness makes me want to reach for my mouse cord and use it to strangle myself. The sheer pointlessness of it all perturbs me, and, though for many years I thought it was an subtle existential exposition on the nature of being, now I see it is just a boring game.

Give me a game with a well-defined goal any day.

	02-12-2002 17:36									#2
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To tell you the truth... I only like SimCity, The Sims is a socal game (and I'm a loner and prond of it!) and the rest of the game suck! (And I should know, I played them all, the WROST was Sim Ant!)

	02-12-2002 17:39									#3
	Got spare money?

Just to post my oppinion in this thread:

I love SimCity, and I'll (proberbly) love SimCity 4 even more

The reason:

SimCity is open ended, you define your own goal. It doesn't say "Game over" when you're having the most fun. And in SimCity 4, the details (both graphical and gameplay) in the game are soooo deep... (Read a review, or see some screenshots, then you'll know what I'm talking about...)

Btw, if you want to see some screenshots (or read about the game):

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=57361

	02-12-2002 19:05									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Well openendedness is something you either love or hate. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with the game, but with nothing to focus on I get bored very soon.

	02-12-2002 22:36									#5
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I'm trying out The Sims Online right now to see what it's all about, since it's free and all.

	02-12-2002 23:06									#6
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I don't like simtower and other similar sim-experiments. SimCity is an exception.

	02-12-2002 23:52									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Ah, Sim Tower, I'd forgotten about that. Just as well really, or I'd have put in a sly comment about how fun it is to design optimal elevator systems.

	03-12-2002 03:45									#8
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I like both a goal and openend. Although, I realy hate it when, in the effort of making a good story, programmers kill Single Player replay value with scipted events up the ***. Oh they are nice the FIRST TIME you play a SP level, but that's it.

I didn't care for many of the Sim games, only because I'm just not good at them, although SimEarth is an exception. I did play The Sims for a while, but after playing it for 2 hours, I relize this guy's life is BETTER THEN MINE!

	03-12-2002 05:35									#9
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I like SimCity. I like the openendedness (what a word! ) but I understand that it might sometimes be a boring thing, especially when your metropolis seems to have reached an 'optimal' level beyond which nothing more can be added in terms of fun.

But I hate the Sims. That is a boring game. Make food, take a shower, read a book, have a romance. Boring.

	03-12-2002 06:05									#10
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Build a residential area, build a road, acheive nothing.

	03-12-2002 10:47									#11
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 I did play The Sims for a while, but after playing it for 2 hours, I relize this guy's life is BETTER THEN MINE!

	03-12-2002 10:50									#12
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SimCity is nice in the sense that you aren't pressed to do anything - just like watching fishes in an aquarium.

Maxis was careful calling SimCity etc. as "software toys" instead of games. Anyway, there is a time and place to go paragliding and there is a time and place to watch fishies.

	03-12-2002 14:19									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger SimCity is nice in the sense that you aren't pressed to do anything - just like watching fishes in an aquarium.

This is fair. I am quite happy to watch the spotted red ribback salmon (btw I made that up) and friends for 1 hour say. After that it's like, well, pretty boring.

	03-12-2002 14:36									#14
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I love all SimGames (except The Sims which I've never played), but I don't play them every day. Openendedness is one positive, I suppose. Other than that ('cause that certainly isn't the only thing I think about with these games) it's kind of hard to explain.

Last edited by Mr. President on 03-12-2002 at 16:06

	03-12-2002 14:49									#15
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There is fun in setting yourself challenges and doing your best to achieve them.

But as has been said, there is a time and place for everything, and sim-type games use their time up quickly.

	03-12-2002 15:46									#16
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I hate Sim games too, but not for the reasons listed here. See, I'm a primitive, instant-gratification type player, and all thesim games have that in common that the first couple of ours are dreary and boring. Once you've experimented a bit it's just one long, long slog... ...Then supposedly it gets fun and exciting. I've never reached this stage. I want fun all the time, no periods of boredom ever!

	03-12-2002 16:04									#17
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Doesnt anyone play the scenarios for Sim City? The SC2K ones especially, particularly the Flint 1974 one

The Sims is for poofs who like choosing table lamps and washing machines, anyone who puts them self in that game is a sad ****er.

	03-12-2002 16:10									#18
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A lot of people seem to be drawing a distinction between sim city and the sims. I have to say I do not see the difference.

	03-12-2002 16:15									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Maquiladora Doesnt anyone play the scenarios for Sim City? The SC2K ones especially, particularly the Flint 1974 one

Nope, I hate scenarios... that kills the "Do-whatever-you-want" part of the game

	03-12-2002 16:17									#20
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike A lot of people seem to be drawing a distinction between sim city and the sims. I have to say I do not see the difference.

Comparing SimCity to The Sims, is like comparing water and oil... Both water and oil is liquid, but that's about it, what they have in common...

	03-12-2002 16:20									#21
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quote: Originally posted by ADG Nope, I hate scenarios... that kills the "Do-whatever-you-want" part of the game

Once youve made that "biggest city ever", "most pleasant city ever" and "my city", its mostly downhill on variation IMO, scenarios are a welcome break.

	03-12-2002 16:43									#22
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ADG:

Tell me why. They are both open ended; you have stated you like to do what you want........if anything The Sims should be preferable to you on that account.

	03-12-2002 17:24									#23
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I didn't say, I didn't like The Sims (I do like it, I just don't play it often), I just said The Sims and SimCity are two different games, with very little in common (e.g. openendness)...

	03-12-2002 17:27									#24
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You don't think both The Sims and Sim City are open-ended? Of course they are.........don't see your reasoning here.

*edit* Or is openendedness an example of one of the few things they have in common? In this case I would say that all here have agreed that the openendedness is the most important feature of both (whether you love or hate openendness is pretty much what decides whether you like these games or not), and hence having that in common makes them similar games.

	03-12-2002 17:33									#25
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Yes, I said that openendness are one of the few things they have in common (Which is the reason why I like both games)

	03-12-2002 17:42									#26
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But since that is the most notable feature of both games you have to class them as similar. This is why I cannot understand people drawing a line between The Sims and Sim City.

To move the debate on though; I would say generally it is non-serious gamers who like the sim games. Most serious gamers prefer more demanding games with goals, but sim games appeal to more occasional gamers. The widespread success of the sims is indicative of this.

Discuss.

	03-12-2002 17:55									#27
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike To move the debate on though; I would say generally it is non-serious gamers who like the sim games. Most serious gamers prefer more demanding games with goals, but sim games appeal to more occasional gamers. The widespread success of the sims is indicative of this. Discuss.

I guess you might be right here, since I'm defently af non-serious gamer (Just ask all my "serious-gamer" friends )... AFAIK none of my friends likes openended games much, and none of them af non-serious gamers... (Hmmm... that's why I feel like, it's me against the rest of the world )

	03-12-2002 18:59									#28
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quote: A lot of people seem to be drawing a distinction between sim city and the sims. I have to say I do not see the difference.

Yeah, it's like people that draw a distinction between Civ and Starcraft. I don't see the difference . They are both strategy games, right?

	03-12-2002 19:04									#29
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Ah but I have stated why I think the games we are discussing should be classed as very similar in gameplay style. Your argument is mere unsubstantiated sophistry.

Last edited by DrSpike on 03-12-2002 at 19:32

	03-12-2002 19:31									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui I don't see the difference . They are both strategy games, right?

That's how I feel when I compare Civ with Chess.... a very very very advanced form of Chess.