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Rasbelin
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Tampere (Tammerfors), Finland
Nov 1999
time: 07:24
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BTW, "cool" pictures may be useful in unit statistics, game encyclopedia etc. |
Yes, that's true.  Especially the in-game encyclopedia "Encyclopedia Galactica" (don't ask from which famous sci-fi book I stole the name from  ) will be great with some nice looking art.
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I think you should know here are some people drawing graphics. Currently this graphcs are sprites, so if your wish us to switch to true 3D (much better, IMO), please inform poor folks doing artist jobs ASAP, so volume of wasted work will be keept minimal. I believe engine you're working on will be pure killer, but we are team, or possible I'm wrong? Some time ago some high-ranked SPDT people seemed to agreed with true 3D, but I still compeltely out of information about _possible_ graphics formats etc. |
I fully understand your concern and I agree that we need a consensus. However one has already apparently been made as now the issue seems to be what libraries are used for the 3D graphics (this would mean that sprites have already been excluded and we're now only planning to use 3D graphics). So I suggest we make a decision now that the graphics are 3D (looks pretty much so anyway) and the libraries used or chosen within the next few days or so. Right now it seems to be a tie between OpenGL or Allegro and AllegroGL, so the choice is up to Blake, Kurilka and Vultur. Plus any others involved. I think the pros and cons Blake came up with point at the use of Allegro and AllgeroGL, but we need a final resolution of that. Plus I also wait for a list of used libraries by Blake as until that GOD will not include any information regarding that. Otherwise I think things are quite clear after that.
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targon
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Dolgoprudny, Moscow region
Nov 2002
time: 08:24
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All parise the GOD!  
I think clever folks from SPDT will choice right format, so anyone may use it. This, among other things, involves bashing commercialware. I suggest your take a glance over Blender (yes, it's still alive), Vertex and others. Old friends are also good, including Lightwave (the program itself is evil commercialware, but format itself is well documented), .obj (seems somewhat stale now). .3ds is't well documented and is keept "secret" for years. I hope SPDT will't invite its own yet another 3D format, there are too many already.
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Blake
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Brainfallocatione
Oct 2000
time: 17:24
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Alrighty. How about I say we'll use SDL+OpenGL.
3D terrain, 3D cities, 3D spaceships. Maybe 3D units, but remember units will only be found in armies, and you cant exactly render 3000 units, so it'll be an army icon... but each unit needs models anyway.
For coders, who like myself, have limited knowledge of OpenGL, this site has some very good and relevant tutorials.
http://www.gametutorials.com/Tutori.../OpenGL_Pg4.htm
Go back to page 1 for the basics of OpenGL.... the link is directely to the tutorials on heightmaps and model loading. These tutorials all come with SDL code.
The NeHe OpenGL tutorials are also good. http://nehe.gamedev.net/
Btw, the Quake2 model format, MD2, could be a good choice, altough there are also tutorials on loading 3DS, OBJ, ASE and MD3, so it really comes down to which is closest to our needs.... and which is easiest to edit, I'm under the impression that most popular 3D modelling suites can save a wide range of formats, but I have 0 experience with such utilities so any advice would be appreciated...
Due to the nature of OpenGL, it is possible the minimal requirements for good performance will be set to 400MHz and a cheapo 3D card (that incidentely is the min specs for most recent full 3D strategy games....), however it could possible work on a system much slower....
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carbaher
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So, correct me if I'm wrong, at last, we're going to develop a 3d-engine using SDL+OpenGL. Or isn't it decided yet?
I think I'm a bit lost in all these messages saying different things...
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targon
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Dolgoprudny, Moscow region
Nov 2002
time: 08:24
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OK, I've used SDL for some pet projects and it behaved smoothly. Allegro, in other hand, is somewhat stale and, last but not least, it succesfuly compiled build managed to sigfault several examples somehow  .
Concrning Q's .mod files: they are good, IMHO, but keep searching, there are lot of other formats.
About 3000+ units: it's really possible using reasonable new (elder GF2 (?), GF3 and 4s) to draw up to ~billion triangles a second and even more! nVidia recommends keeping triangles about 100 pixels each with average overdraw (~2-2.5). If your have less triangles in the scene, your FPS is cutted by fillrate, so you can add some detail for free. And "reasonable modern" cards will surely become "reasonable outdated" in times of this game release. If you're very frustrated due to heavy "wasting" of processing power, you may use impositors instead of rendered units. With 3000+ (or even 100!) units, player can't distinguish, esp. if units are 1) properly animated; 2) impositors do't mess up z-buffer with its transparent parts.
P.S. Still can't shut up, I'm artist, not a coder... my apologizes...
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vovan
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Well, despite the fact that Blake does post from time to time on these boards, he doesn't seem to participate in the project, nonetheless. Much less manage it. I sent him a pm exactly a week ago, asking about the development, and how it was going to work, etc.. He didn't bother respond with anything. So, I assume he either doesn't care enough if he gets some help, or he just doesn't have any time to participate in the project.
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Rasbelin
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Tampere (Tammerfors), Finland
Nov 1999
time: 07:24
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I would be more than happy to give you work, but as Blake is responsible for the coding work (actually he's the Coding Manager), he's the one co-ordinating any such issues. I'm here almost everyday and several times a day, but it's up to Blake to direct anything related to coding. I have already asked him to get the coding running, but apparently something is keeping im away. Eventhough he drops by here almost everyday too.
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BTW, where is thing called "Stella Polaris CVS", or where it would be? |
SourceForge as you guessed.
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Where developers are hiding? |
I don't know. Right now only Chaos Theory and Kailash are lurking. Vultur is working on the next beta version of Map Builder, bu you've seen him here earlier this week.
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Why open source project looks so pirvate and secret? |
At least I'm not looking at myself for the reason as I'm not keeping much private or secret information regarding the project. Yes, well, several passwords, access information and correspondance, but nothing greater than that. As for Blake, I don't know. I assume he just looks abit secret as he's not that visible, even if he should be.
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Blake where are you?! |
He's most likely still in bed, but he comes online when it's daytime in New Zealand.
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Well, despite the fact that Blake does post from time to time on these boards, he doesn't seem to participate in the project, nonetheless. |
It may look like that, but actually he's doing much of the brainwork offline and he's indeed doing work, but not that visible now, except for what we see in the messages here.
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Much less manage it. |
That's how it's supposed to be as I'm co-ordinating the work and keeping the team running. However I can't do much for the coding.
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So, I assume he either doesn't care enough if he gets some help, or he just doesn't have any time to participate in the project. |
I can't comment that, except that I can only say that I assume he's more tired than careless or busy regarding the project.
Those who were wondering about contacting him can send him e-mail at the usual address, blake_at_stellapolaris.info.
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vovan
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Well, I'm sorry if I sounded a little bashing or what not, I am really not. I understand that there is actually very little coding we can do before we get our hands on the god, and Blake is right in not giving us any actual programming tasks.
But there are lots of things that can be done before coding. Mainly, I don't know if there are any professional programmers in our team, but I am sure most of us could use some brushing up on our skills. One person cannot do everything for such a large game. We need to divide our priorities. Some people should be designated as future graphics programmers, others should be responsible for the AI, still others for networking, etc.. Without knowing exactly which part of the game I will be responsible for, I cannot start learning the stuff that will be useful.
Tell me that I am going to be one of the GUI programmers, and I will read some books on design. Tell me that I will be doing graphics, and I will do the OpenGL tutorials. Tell me that I will be working with the AI, and I will attend some of the advanced lectures here in college (it has one of the best AI labs in America, too ). Tell me that I will be responsible for the MP connectivity, and I'll play around with networks. Whatever I will eventually end up doing, I will need to do some studying first (given you want things to be done right). I don't think many people could just get coding in most of those areas without doing any research either.
PS: well, maybe I'm just a little disappointed in the fact that Blake ignored my pm 
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vovan
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Well, I think as far as something as 'onesided', if you will, as a graphical engine goes, you are right, one does not need a lot of programmers. However, in a complete game, there are a lot of diverse aspects of programming. Can you, for instance, also program Artificial Intelligence for a strategy game, and programming the connectivity classes for multiplayer? I wouldn't expect you to, though if you could, I am sure you would be able to make tons of money.
The screenshots looks pretty nice, BTW. If that thing is also fast, I am sure one could make a pretty cool game with that
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carbaher
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I think we should start with the development of the game as soon as possible. Here are the reasons...
We have been discussing in forums about a lot of things- aliens, factions, terrain...- yes, that's nice, and is the first thing to be done (the concept of the game). But once we have a base (I call this, that we know, we have space, we have planets, we have factions... that's enough to start). With that base developers can start work, because as my experience tells me, is that today's software projects starts implementing simple things. From there, it's easy to add new features and new stuff to the project, specially if you are coding in an object oriented way (let's say C++).
Also there is one important reason, in the development of a game is very nice to see how all your work (let's say artists work, writers, etc...) is going in the game from time to time. I know this seem to be less important, but after years I've seen that all the development team morale increases, and how you can get more help for the project, all by only releasing an alpha version.
And last, we developers want to start working is such a nice game 
Hope all this doesn't sound as a  
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09-12-2002 16:49
What if you are an atheist? 
! and I need some action!! 
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