14-12-2002 11:15									#31
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I am also in favor of exploring the hut. The worst that could happen is a barbarian horde; the best would be technology or even a free settler. That is too great a possible reward to ignore. In the event of barbarians, while we may lose Howard, we will have ample time to move our worker to safety, while also having Warrior 3 ready in time to face them. we also have Conan as a close back-up.

	14-12-2002 11:21									#32
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I would pop the hut, too. We are on Regent, so barbs are real pushovers (huge combat bonus for the human). We would have to be extremely unlucky to lose Howard to any angry barbs. I consider popping the hut almost like getting a free candy...

	14-12-2002 14:30									#33
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OK, I have finally brought the Chronicle fully up to date with all texts. Enjoy more of my daddy jokes...

	14-12-2002 21:51									#34
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Hmm, looking at the 3500 save, I suspect that we have some interesting decisions to make about our exploration paths.

The area southwest of the game/deer square appears to contain water. Whether that is a river or ocean is hard to tell at the moment. However, it also appears that there is also water northwest of the game/deer as well, and there appears to be a sandy area to the northeast of that square leading me to believe that the western coastline is beside the deer.

Since Conan did not reveal that dark zone northwest of him, I suspect that square is a hill or a mountain. I suggest that Conan either move northwest to the hill to reveal the whole coastline and then to the hut two turns later, or move to the plains and then the hut.

It looks as though the northern area is a large mountain range. However, I think that Howard should move northwest for this next turn or two perhaps.

Unless Howard uncovers something useful in the 3450 or 3400 bc turns, I think that it might be an idea to start moving him back south afterward.

I suspect that we will soon be able to start sending Conan south into the jungle once we pop the hut. We would reveal more by moving him directly southward along those hills.

	14-12-2002 21:57									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Sharpe Hmm, looking at the 3500 save, I suspect that we have some interesting decisions to make about our exploration paths. The area southwest of the game/deer square appears to contain water. Whether that is a river or ocean is hard to tell at the moment. However, it also appears that there is also water northwest of the game/deer as well, and there appears to be a sandy area to the northeast of that square leading me to believe that the western coastline is beside the deer. Since Conan did not reveal that dark zone northwest of him, I suspect that square is a hill or a mountain. I suggest that Conan either move northwest to the hill to reveal the whole coastline and then to the hut two turns later, or move to the plains and then the hut. It looks as though the northern area is a large mountain range. However, I think that Howard should move northwest for this next turn or two perhaps. Unless Howard uncovers something useful in the 3450 or 3400 bc turns, I think that it might be an idea to start moving him back south afterward. I suspect that we will soon be able to start sending Conan south into the jungle once we pop the hut. We would reveal more by moving him directly southward along those hills.

Almost exactly what I think. Conan NW, Howard NW. Just that I would try to time the southern goody hut popping so that we already research Pottery by that time (to avoid getting the cheap Pottery should we get double-lucky and get another tech there). Otherwise, I pretty much agree with everything you said.

	16-12-2002 21:19									#36
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OK, sorry for the delayed Chonicle update. My cable link was down in the morning and I have had to leave early today, returning only few hours ago. I played the turn over my backup dial-up connection, but did not feel like uploading all the pics to the webspace. Besides, nothing really exciting happened...

Unless someone objects, Howard will continue to the North, checking there is water beyond the mountains, and Conan will turn SW in the next turn, getting ready for the goody hut pop-up in 3350BC. The Worker will move to Legopolis to start building a road through the narrow strip of grasslands between the hills and the jungle.

	16-12-2002 21:27									#37
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I'd move Howard north-west instead of north. It could be his last adventure on the northern part of our island (continent?).

About the worker: err, you mean south-east, right?

	16-12-2002 22:06									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Tiberius I'd move Howard north-west instead of north. It could be his last adventure on the northern part of our island (continent?). About the worker: err, you mean south-east, right?

Well, I initially thought about moving Howard to NW, too, but it is likely that he would end up in the midst of a mountainous area, unable to see much of his surroundings, actually needing to proceed further to North. OTOH, moving to the North, he might be able to see a lot, perhaps everything he needs to.

And yes, of course, I meant SE...

	17-12-2002 04:54									#39
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quote: Unless someone objects, Howard will continue to the North, checking there is water beyond the mountains, and Conan will turn SW in the next turn, getting ready for the goody hut pop-up in 3350BC. The Worker will move to Legopolis to start building a road through the narrow strip of grasslands between the hills and the jungle.

I agree with Howard moving north. It should reveal more of the sea area.

I think Conan should move west next turn to reveal more. If he moves southwest he will not reveal any more of the map. Either way he is only 1 turn from the hut.

Also agree about moving the worker southeast and to build a road the turn after.

	17-12-2002 04:55									#40
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I also think north is the best option. We may only see ocean, but at least we'll be seeing all of it.

I will add the worker movement to the official MB orders for the turn.

	17-12-2002 06:30									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Sharpe I agree with Howard moving north. It should reveal more of the sea area. I think Conan should move west next turn to reveal more. If he moves southwest he will not reveal any more of the map. Either way he is only 1 turn from the hut.

Jesus Christ, I should not have posted that post about moving our units. I wanted to say "worker to SE" and said "worker to SW". I wanted to say "Conan to W" and said "Conan to NW". Oh...

Of course, Conan should move westwards, the reason being exactly the same as with Howard - he will reveal more of the unexplored part of the map and end up adjacent to the hut.

So, ignore my previous retarded babbling. Here is what I really intend(ed) to do:

Howard - N, Conan - W, Worker - SE,SE,road

	17-12-2002 08:54									#42
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Don't worry, Vondrack, nothing is retarded babbling here!

Remember my crazy idea about the outpost. Turns out we proved that the manual was incorrect about the distances revealed.

Btw, I gather that what they are saying in the public forum is probably correct - Lux Invicta encountered another civ (probably Neu Demogyptica). Look how their amount of time per turn has increased from 20 minutes to 16 hours ! (for the last 3 turns). Guess Trip won't be making anymore sarcastic comments about how fast he is .... hehe

(On the other hand we are the slowest - however in our defense Lux Invicta has sent the file to Vondrack frequently at 1 am your time.... and neglected to post in the save file thread 3 times too.)

	18-12-2002 01:26									#43
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OK, I did almost what I said two posts ago... the only change was that I realized it was possible to move the worker directly to the tile we want to start roading (by following the existing road southwards and then crossing the river eastwards).

However, we are having some decisions to make regarding our exploration, since new opportunities have emerged recently. Have a look at the 3400BC Chronicle entry and let me know what you think...

1) Howard may push northwest to find out how far the mountain range extends. He may also turn westwards and try reaching the isthmus/peninsula ASAP, venturing northwards along the thin landstrip. My preference: NW, as I hate leaving unexplored borders behind my scouting units (possibly turning to W only later).

2) Conan may either pop the hut and continue southwards along the hills into the jungle, or may go northwards and explore the newly spotted isthmus (or peninsula, whatever it is). My preference: N, as popping the hut is currently a little bit of risk. While a settler would definitely be great, we might easily get three angry warriors that would be pretty close to Legopolis and our most developed tiles. I would prefer having more than just one mean warrior in Legopolis prior to popping this hut... Finding chokepoints is usually quite high on my priority list and the isthmus (if it is one, of course) may be a great chokepoint.

Also, the hill Conan is currently standing upon may be a great city site. I guess it would be able to "channel" the two bodies of water (correct me if I am wrong!), it would have a great defensive bonus by being upon a hill, a commercial bonus from the river, a fine game forest tile... no overlap with Legopolis... well, I would probably plop a city there right after founding the eastern coastal city.

	18-12-2002 02:22									#44
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That sounds like a good plan for the next few turns. Of course, it could prove to be just a peninsula... I hope it isn't.

And feel free to send me on the first expedition into the jungle for stating the obvious, but remember to see if you can reduce the science slider next turn.

	18-12-2002 06:23									#45
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Hmm, we do have a dilemma...

Btw, Legopolis should have 5 shields per turn instead of 4 now.

I strongly suspect that Howard will find nothing but mountains in the north based on what I have seen in other maps, but perhaps he should move northwest for 1 more turn.

I am of two minds about Conan:

1) I am starting to get a little worried about our lack of knowledge about the south.

Yes admittedly it is jungle, but we do know that at least one other civ is possibly near the jungle too - don't forget that for a while we were 6th in disease not 7th like we are now (yes - they could also be near flood plain though that is unlikely as they would be growing as fast as us, and it took several turns for the rest of the civs to reach size 2)

2) If we leave the hut, there is a possibility that someone else will get it before us. The horde of barbs might be a worry, but at least Conan would be on a hill and we would uncover more territory to the southwest if we move him onto the hut next turn.

3) The new western area. From what we see now, Conan would be able to move northwest then north then north again at the minimum. However, if it is a peninsula, it will take Conan 4-6 turns to get back to where he started. If Howard was to stop exploring the north and head toward the west it would take him 6 turns to reach where Conan is right now.

The questions in my mind then are:

1) Do we move Howard west or northwest this turn?
2) Do we move Conan onto the hut next turn or move him northwest?

I am still undecided on both of these questions.

	22-12-2002 13:32									#46
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OK, following the will of the Senate (which was different from mine... ), I popped the hut and - we were lucky AGAIN! Warrior Code is no longer a mystery for us, the wise Legomen! I assume that Conan shall keep heading to the South now, following the hills. Howard shall move one more tile to the North - as that may very well be his last move in this direction. I believe he will be able to spot the coast and then turn back, heading for the narrow strip of land discovered by Conan.

	22-12-2002 13:58									#47
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This turn was very good news I'll take a look at our next research options, in case we discover pottery faster than anticipated.

	22-12-2002 15:45									#48
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I'd like to thank to every Lego who voted to open the hut! We are indeed lucky!

Since this is my last post before my vacation, I wish all of you a wonderful winter holiday. May all your dreams and wishes come true in the following year.

Merry Christmas!

Happy New Year!

Good civin'!

	23-12-2002 03:34									#49
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We found TWO techs in goodie huts! First CB and now WC. We are on a roll.

	23-12-2002 11:04									#50
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Looks like the hut worked out almost as good as we could have hoped!

My apologies if my posting is spotty for the next few days; I'm spending the week at my girlfriend's family's place, so my access may be on and off! I'll stay as posted as I can!

Happy holidays to all!

	23-12-2002 11:18									#51
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Well... I am not leaving for the holidays, I shall be spending the Christmas time at home, with my beloved one (she's my darling... even though she is not into PC games very much, she does like to talk about my civvin', even demanding updates on the demogame progress... )

Anyway, I just thought I would say Merry Christmas and A Happy New Year to everybody, even though I am not leaving to anywhere... I wish all of you enjoy this time as much as I do!



Radek

	24-12-2002 04:46									#52
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OK, I have had some spare time to update the Chronicle thread promptly. An unsorted list of my observations:

• there really is just coast behind the mountains to the North of Howard's current location. It may not be that clearly visible on the downscaled map image, but looking closely at the game screen, I am sure there is just water to the north.
  
• Judging from the coastal (shallow water) tiles extending to the North-West, I am now pretty confident that there is land beyond the narrow strip Conan discovered. The strip should actually be an isthmus leading to another landmass. I can still be wrong, but I believe I am not.
  
• Even though the city on the east coast shall remain our primary site, I now consider the Conan Hill site (the hill tile just west of the Plastico River bend, two tiles to the North of Conan's current location) a site of extreme strategic importance. We shall definitely plop our third city there, making it block all access from the isthmus, allowing ourselves to safely focus on exploring the southern jungle.
  
• Conan shall keep heading South, preferrably sticking to the hills.
  
• Howard shall move one more tile northwards - standing upon a mountain coastal tile, he will be able to see a great deal of the surrounding ocean... which may turn out to be interesting, considering the assumed existence of a landmass beyond the isthmus. He shall then take the shortest route to the isthmus, crossing it and venturing into the unknown.
  
• I could have lowered the research rate to 90% without delaying the discovery of Pottery. I did not do it yet, but the Enlightened might wish to check this possibility.
  
• I have noticed that all but two teams keep almost the same score. The exceptions are Gathering Storm and Lux Invicta. This may indicate they started in a bit crappy locations...
  
• I am somewhat puzzled by the fact that there are three more "unknown" leaderheads visible on the Foreign Minister screen...? The last one appeared only this turn. Why do they appear there? What is the reason for having just three of them there?

	24-12-2002 06:15									#53
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quote: Originally posted by vondrack .... she does like to talk about my civvin', even demanding updates on the demogame progress... ...

she have a sister?

	24-12-2002 07:08									#54
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quote: Originally posted by redstar1 she have a sister?

I have had to read your post several times to get it... it's a bit too late here... At first, I thought I wrote something incorrect/funny...

The answer is: yes, Karina does have a sister - Ester. But by no means that understanding... Ester is said to be quite nuts, which is - fortunately! - just the opposite of Karina...

As a matter of fact, Ester is sort of a mythical figure for me... never met her yet, even though I have been with Karina for almost two years now... I shall be meeting Ester on December 29th for the first time in my life - she's been spending last six years at a university in the US, coming back to briefly see her family after more than two years...

But yes, guys, you would feel like in Civ heavens with Karina... imagine going to bed at about 6am (just about the time she gets up to work...), having civved all night, nervously mumbling something like "f***ing Russians, sneak attacked me when I least needed it. But I will teach them a lesson! And the mean Bismarck, too!" Instead of telling me how foolish it was to spend a whole night playing a computer game, instead of complaining of how lonely she felt in the bed, she just kisses me and says how much she loves the kid in me (I am 30). Just plain wonderful... I wish you'd be as lucky...

	24-12-2002 08:53									#55
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Hmm, back online on my old computer after the hard drive on the new one failed. Grrr!!!

I am starting to wonder if we should radically change our plans regarding Howard, Conan and garrison.

1) It does look like that there might be something on that peninsula - if so we should investigate as soon as possible.

Using the plains square in the middle of the peninsula, Conan is the closest (only 4 turns away), Howard would take 8 turns to get to the same spot (9 if he moves north for one more turn)

2) Given the location of the Role-playing team and the fact that they know where we are - they will be sending their warriors to explore near us immediately (assuming that we might be connected to them of course).

If so, we should be trying to move towards them too if for nothing else but to explore the region near us before they do. Conan while near the jungle is on the western side of our area and would take 8 turns to get to the east coast area.

3) Garrison will not be needed as a garrison when the settler is built. However, it may not be wise to leave the capital unprotected.

Howard would take 6 turns to return to the capital from his current location and 7 if he moves north one more turn. Regardless, Garrison will remain in the capital for 3 more turns until the settler is built.

One possible alternative is that Conan and not Howard explore the peninsula - that would allow us to explore it 4-5 turns earlier.

Howard would instead head south. We would then have 2 choices for our jungle exploration.

a) Have Howard become our jungle explorer - that would delay our jungle exploration by several turns - however, if we are planning to explore to the east Howard and Conan would arrive in the south east at around the same time.

b) Have Garrison become our jungle explorer. While that might allow us to start moving Garrison southward when Howard is within 1 or 2 turns from the capital and move to the east 1 to 2 turns faster than either Howard or Conan....

It would leave the capital defenseless for those 1-2 turns (however we should be able to see anyone coming before Garrison would move and could change our plans accordingly).

One decision that we have to make regardless is whether to move Howard north 1 more turn or not.

My suggestion would be for Howard to move north 1 turn, then proceed south. Conan to explore the peninsula and later we will make a decision as to whether Howard or Garrison will be our jungle explorer.
(We would also have Conan in the west if the peninsula turned out to be nothing).

Sorry for the long-winded post.

	24-12-2002 10:38									#56
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Good suggestions. My gut instinct goes against it, though, as I hate to backtrack in my explorations. It comes down to what our priority is: the jungle, or the expected isthmus.

Next turn, if Howard moves north again, we'll have a lot more information. IMO, if he reveals land (or even just a coastline), we should go for your proposed switch (Conan north, Howard to garrison, NG south); if not, Conan should continue south into the jungle.

	24-12-2002 23:26									#57
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the GoW is to our North the RPers got the GoW mini-map and told me where they were.

	25-12-2002 00:49									#58
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We need to place a city to seal that isthmas A.S.A.P.

	25-12-2002 21:50									#59
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Well no, we need to find out if it leads anywhere first.

	25-12-2002 22:43									#60
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quote: Originally posted by redstar1 Well no, we need to find out if it leads anywhere first.

It does, check the Chronicle - I have just updated it. Also, thanks to RPers, we can now be pretty sure that the isthmus leads to another subcontinent where GoW started.