04-12-2002 19:50									#1
	First City Strategy Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

What are you looking for in your Capital.

In 2x pro, I'm always looking for a city location that has some trade... silk, gold, wine, whales, spice, gems... and I'm willing to wander a bit to find it. And in a perfect world, there should be at least an average amount of production availble as well.

I've noticed that some players in our games just slap a city down in the first turn or two, regardless of what's available.

What's your strategy for your Capital?

	04-12-2002 21:06									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I look for a trade special, then a production special. If there are neither I will wander (a little while) until I can find one of those.

If after a few turns of wandering there isn't either of them, I will panic-plop my capital.

	04-12-2002 21:17									#3
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in 2x, minimum requirement for combined first two cities.
5 beakers.

Other than that, it's nice to have some food or production if you actually get a choice. But if there is no choice I'll settle for 5 beakers regardless of the other surroundings.

The real question, is how long you're willing to wander before you "Panic Flop".

RAH

	04-12-2002 22:16									#4
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Either a good trade special (whale/silk/spice/gold) or even better a production special that lets me build a settler before the city turns size 2. (iron/peat/buffalo)

If the map is big enough (50x60 and up) and/or its 5 bil I'll wonder a bit.

On a 40x50 3 bil map I'll just build anywhere I got a shielded grassland, forest and ocean tile.

	04-12-2002 22:35									#5
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x2x1...Forest and ocean is minimum.

x1x1...Shielded grassland and forest.

Of course,starting place is better in 95% chances.

	05-12-2002 01:41									#6
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obviously i want trade too, but if i see a ton of forest in the opening , i have no problem dropping two cities and looking for trade....

if you dont' find trade you could be in trouble, but in x2x1 that is easily offset by finding water...

of course rivers are nice anytime, but the combo of trade/growth and production is obviously best.

personally i like alot of production

	05-12-2002 03:06									#7
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The more I play the more I don't care about starts or specials. Sometimes I might wander looking for sea or trade but usually I plonk down the cap where it is in 4000BC.

	05-12-2002 03:18									#8
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If the opening screen has no huts, no specials, and no rivers... I may move one turn to see if I expose anything, and my movement will be aimed toward possible city locations assumming nothing additional is uncovered. If there is ocean, some production or food, I'll just plop them down, especially if it looks like that it will be a long time before I have a hope of finding a prefered location. Hopefully, by the time the first settlers are ready, I'll have found some trade.

If I'm on a river, or can see part of a pattern, I'm a lot more patient.

	05-12-2002 06:46									#9
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well spoken ming, i couldn't agree more......

sometimes its worth it to grow your cities to size two asap ....so there are many different strats to follow.

i doubt there is an ideal start unless its two huts, gold, spice, whine, and silk on a river adjacent to ocean

	05-12-2002 06:59									#10
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I hate starting on plains. That's about the only time a I move more than one or two before settling. Although I will explore a river if I start on one.

	05-12-2002 10:29									#11
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Oh yeah... when the opening screen shows mostly plains, there better be some huts or a river...

With a unit starting on a river, unless there are EXCELLENT starting postions readily available, I will always check the river out first. Nothing better than finding a river/forest silk tile

	05-12-2002 12:35									#12
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yes rivers really offer an unfair advantage to someone who doesn't have them...early in the game when defence is questionable, and each beaker or trade arrow counts, rivers can give you that earlier monarchy which is absolutely huge in mp....same if you go the republic route

	06-12-2002 12:45									#13
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Tonight was a classic example... while there were no specials or huts on my openning screen, I was on a large river basin. Granted, it took me awhile to find ANY special worth a damn, but at least I was able to do it quickly. I did manage to catch up to you. I got my third city down before you did because my second city was settler a factory with two buffalos and a pheasent.
With the city on a river dot... I cranked a settler out pretty quick and just used one of my non units to protect it. Damn... we started close to each other.
Too bad you killed my non chariot, or you would have had real problems

	06-12-2002 19:49									#14
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Yes, rivers are your friends
But they can cause problems if your opponent can establish himself on the same river basin. Advance, fortify, and instant fortifications can be difficult to deal with.

	06-12-2002 20:51									#15
	Increase the size of your Attachments

yes thankfully, my warrior was avet after that attack, and thankfully i saw you coming haha....

neeedless to say i have boats, and have found some other land, and my bad move for missing out on HG, i should have been paying attention to that, i even had an embassy....

oh well....cest la vie

	07-12-2002 02:16									#16
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I'm a wanderer generally......the chance of a non unit is nice. However I will quite happily plonk down in 4000BC on a river, especially since playing rookie deity I have another settler to explore with first to help rule out settling one square away from the perfect spot.

Worse is wandering 4 turns, then realising the best spot was where you started..........sometimes civ is cruel.

	07-12-2002 02:30									#17
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yes Spike.....realizing the opening was as good as its going to get for awhile makes for a painfull night....

always explore the river, odds are you will find a hut or a special...if not, the rivers a nice start

	09-12-2002 06:30									#18
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Clearly the strategy is different in 1x1x.....but the "specials" you look for in 2x just aren't that great for a newly founded city.

Just about the only immediately usable resources for a starting capital I'd consider useful in 1x1x are a whale, and maybe phesent and wheat/buffalo, with a little work.

Of course we look for all these other resources knowing they'll be extremely useful once the city can grow a bit, but untill then its grassland sheilds all the way. Rivers are a nice addition, but mainly to found a city on......I seem to always prep 2 grassland sheilds for a new city if I can already. The river would just shorten that time to founding and nothing else unless its built directly on the river.

	09-12-2002 06:32									#19
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Rivers are key in any game....the extra trade early means better beakers, means a better govt....

Frank Johonson points out clearly the benefits of whales....they are killer in x1

	09-12-2002 16:10									#20
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I don't think anything is a killer. None of it is that important. We all know the game well enough now to do well from any start.

	09-12-2002 19:04									#21
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Whales rule in either 1x or 2x.
I think that caused a lot of my dislike for CIVIII. The whale isn't king in that game. Just like everything else that I liked about II, they took out of III.

RAH

	09-12-2002 19:21									#22
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Ideally I'm a "Bill Nye the Science Guy" myself.
I might wait a turn or two to put down first city, but I'm through doing a Moses act.

	09-12-2002 19:44									#23
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I still do the moses act sometimes. As stated, nothing worse than wandering 8 turns just to realize theat your opening spot was the best location you're going to find.

	09-12-2002 20:21									#24
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Which is what generally happens to me.
If there's a wrong way to go, map clicking or not, I go that way.

	09-12-2002 20:39									#25
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there is nothing worse than hitting a dead end

	09-12-2002 20:40									#26
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especially one square short/or within range of where the next special should be.

	09-12-2002 20:47									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

early map making can be huge.....one should avoid coastal settlement until you have it if possible, unless ou can see the damm whale lol

	09-12-2002 21:12									#28
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hahaha, I remember one game where I was pinned in and figured I should go for MAPMAKING early. Maxed every city in terms of science ignoring food and production. When I got it, it was time to switch to tiremes and rush them, only to discover that I didn't have any coastal cities. hahahahaha so it took me a few extra turns to crank a settler and make one. I felt quite foolish.

Rich

	09-12-2002 21:13									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Usually it's a warrior who hits the dead end too, which then takes him 1500 years to get back to home base...

	09-12-2002 21:33									#30
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That's funny RAH. But I've done the same, as I have few cities right on coast. I like them to "lurK'.